Weaponsmith Archive

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jmatt wrote:

It's pretty disconcerting to realize that there isn't an optimal Phrik aluminum (for example) for all schematics based on certain resource stats, but that the quality of each resource has to be evaluated for each schematic independently of the others.

If there was another schematic that used Phrik and Diatium and the experimental percentages were exactly the same as the ABPH (CD66%, OQ33%), but used the resources in different quantities (with, say, 8 units of Diatium and only 5 Phrik) then the Xooleris might yield better results than the Toba.

This means that each set of specific resource statistics has to be evaluated for each and every schematic. *shudder*

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This is why I would advise a spreadsheet or database. I use an Access to keep track of resources and to tell me what is good and what is not. I currently use the math as mentioned initially, but I am going to redesign it to give me two result sets now. One with the basic algorithm and another with the more complex algorithm so I can do some testing with both theories.

- Jiist

Greets ..

Rechecked my formula's today .. and I was indeed a bit off ... the missing stat doesn't count for *anything*. Not 0, not 1000.

You just take the stat and multiple it by the number of resources. Add that all up and divide by those resources.

10units x CD800 = 8,000 + 5units * CD700 = 3,500

8k+3.5K = 11.5k / 15unit = 766.66 CD average per unit.

Do the same with the other stat ... like OQ.

Then if it's a 66/33 ... you times each respectively ... 66.66 and 33.33 ... then add them together.

This will give you the *exact* amount, in percentages, of the max exp you will get on that item.

I just did a test with APH's ... using a bunch of different quality resources. Every time it hit the number my spreadsheet kicked out ... 884 would be 792 was 79% ... etc, etc ... I did each combo 3 times and the precentage all came out the same.

I am going to crunch some numbers later and figure out how the percentages actually affect the result ... so as to accurately be able to predict what certain things will do to weapons :-) but not today.

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LLJK_Griz wrote:

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MulletMan01 wrote:

This, I did not know. Ialways assumed that if a resource didn't have any of the required attributes, you had to count them as 0. Hmmm,interesting.

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I think any missing stats are filled in with 1000s - architects have some item that requires SR or UT on an inert petrochem, and they get better results using lubricating oil (which doesn't have SR/UT) than they do with polymer (which does have them).

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To show that if a resource is used in an experiment and it does not possess the stat, its units are not used in the weighting in the calculation of overall potential %, you can look at an advanced vibro blade unit. The other two cases being that the resource is used with 0 or with 1000 replacing its non-existent stat, but keeping the weighting of its units in the calculation of overall %.

The advanced vibro blade unit only uses the UT stat. It requires 25 units of desh copper, 13 units of platinite copper, and 15 units of class 3 solid petro fuel which does not have UT as a stat. Total number of units if all resources are used in weighting is 53, and only 38 if the solid petro units are removed.

For this I am using desh with 365 UT, platinite with 741, and some class 3 solid petro fuel no UT stat.
As a note, to make the final # a % you just divide by 10 and that gives the % shown on the crafting tool.

Case 1: Resource without stat, each unit uses 0 in stat and is given weight in overall # of units -- uses 53 as total # of units of resource.
((25/53) * 365) + ((13/53) * 741) + ((15/53) * 0) = 353.925 to % becomes 35.3925%

Case 2: Resource without stat, each unit uses 1000 in stat and is given weight in overall # of units -- uses 53 as total # of units of resource.
((25/53) * 365) + ((13/53) * 741) + ((15/53) * 1000) = 636.943 to % becomes 63.6943%

Case 3: Resource without stat is completely taken out of weighting equation -- uses 38 as total # of units of resource.
((25/38) * 365) + ((13/38) * 741) = 493.632 to % becomes 49.3632%

When you max the experimental damage line on this advanced vibro blade unit, it maxes out as 49% on the crafting tool which agrees with Case 3. So it seems that if a resource is used in an experiment and it does not possess the stat, its units are not used in the weighting in the calculation of overall potential %.

This is the case with the advanced vibro blade unit, but that doesn't mean it works the same way for all schematics, especially schematics in other professions.

Free anything for you if you set your foot on farstar, eifora! And 5 stars. Great work! Now I have to make another pass through all my resources... :-/

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Hero_DarkJedi wrote:

Greets ..

I just did a test with APH's ... using a bunch of different quality resources. Every time it hit the number my spreadsheet kicked out ... 884 would be 792 was 79% ... etc, etc ... I did each combo 3 times and the precentage all came out the same.

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Oops ... typo :-)

884 would get you an 88% max ... 792 would bet you 79% ... etc, etc.

As stated and confirmed ... the missing stats on an item don't count towards anything ... which actually makes the remaing stats have more of an impact.

With the APH's ... you only average the 2 CD's that are present ... each of them accounts for 33.33% of the overal final combine. Where as the other 5 OQ's each only represent 6.6% of the guns overal value.

And remember ... it's not just the the *stats* ... it's the Quantity * Stats ...

So .. if you want to get "persinicity" about stuff here is what each stat represents of the overal outcome of a APH

CD: 66% total

Diatium = 25.35%
Phrik = 40.56%

OQ:33% total

Polymer = 7.5%
Diatium = 3.75%
Ore = 3.75%
Phrik = 6%
Gas = 12%

Ok ... so it's off by a few hundreths of a percent due to rounding ... but that is the long and short of how the resources affects the overall outcome.

Formula for this was basically simple.

66% is based on CD ... there are 13 units of cd used ... 66 / 13 = 5.07 ... each unit of copper accounts for 5.07 towards cd ... The Diatium has 5 units... 5 * 5.07 = 25.35% ... Phrik has 8 units ... 8 * 5.07 = 40.56% ... the OQ 33% ... there are 42 units .. 33 / 42 = .75 ... etc, etc, etc.

Now ... I have not started to tweak my spreadsheets to really reflect the above numbers and I am going to take a few days to think about how I want to do that.

Right now I take the CD and times it by .66 and the OQ and times it by .33 ... That is not going to work for me anymore ... as the numbers 'appear' to be 40.5% and 6% ... but you can't combine those together as they point to the wrong results.

The 40.5% stands on it's own ... and the 6% stands on it's own and can not be merged together to guage the quality of the resource.

This has been a very enlightening walk though how things worked ...

/bump for Ayka

Heres the funny thing, I been a Weaponsmith my entire time I been playing, excluding the couple months from day 1 when I started grinding.

All those equations make my head hurt.

When a new Diatium Spawns, I harvest 10-15 units, and craft a new ABPH with the old Diatium substitued with the new one. Same when Irolunn, or Phrik, or Polymer spawns (well not polymer, Ahazi got lucky with a 999 OQ spawn, booyah!). If the stats on my component are better, I mine the arse out of it, if theyre the same I just harvestas much as I can, and if theyre worse I scratch it off my list.

However, for the folks who sit and work all these numbers and equations out, Id just like to say one thing.....

NNNNEEEERRRDDDDSSS!!!!!

Message Edited by GarenTore on 05-08-2004 03:14 AM

i was so happy just doing one point at a time with a good ratio resource.. god damn all of you my head hurts.. but its too tempting to mess around and figure it out

• ABPH using Ipolie, 66% of793.8 CD =523.9 + 33% of 897.7 OQ = 296.2, total = 820.1

(((Disoni Diatium Copper, CD 762) * 5) + ((Cinoda Phrik Aluminum, CD 795) * 8)) / 13 = 782.3
(((Disoni Diatium Copper, OQ 824) * 5) + ((Ssibaism Polymer, OQ 993) * 10) + ((Soloinyl Irolunn Reactive Gas, OQ 967) * 16) + ((Ote Ostrine Carbonate Ore, OQ 982) * 5) + (Cinoda Phrik Aluminum, OQ 674) * 8)) / 44) = 905

• ABPH using Disoni, 66% of782.3 CD =516.3 + 33% of905 OQ = 298.6, total = 814.9

So....if you're still following me...The above numbers also tell me I should get better results with the Ipolie Diatium Copper. But the end product does not agree.

I even tried another theory in which the ABPH had a .87CD .13OQ ratio and found the following

Advanced Blaster Power Handler: .87cd .13oq
Ipolie = 690.6+116.7 = 807.3
Disoni = 680.6+117.7 = 798.3

Again...the Ipolie should be better.

For now I'll just use what works...just really odd how everything points to the ABPH made with the Ipolie Diatium should make a better product.

Any insight and fellow nerds are welcome to comment with any ideas...I think I got all the numbers right, crazy insomnia right now and haven't slept in a while.

Cheers

I'm at work anyway and can't go into the numbers but this problem is duplicated on Chilastra.

I used the same resources _except_ substituted a _better_ (by average) phrik voino for iibism .

PH w/ Ibiism= 20/41 -.41
PH w/ Voino= 20/40 -.40

Ibiism has a higher conductivity, but lower OQ than voino. As stated above the conductiviy seems to be weighting more on the average.