Weaponsmith Archive

Plumbum Iron with it's 100 CD max even with 1000 OQ yields 5.5% max result per point of experimentation so that equals 55% for 10 experimentation points.

Rodium Steel, Chromium Aluminum, Desh Copper, Corellian Dedic. Wood, any other Steel with it's max 600 CD and so forth--that's a lot of resources that will just straight up suck under the new system. Because as Masters with skill tapes you still will have trouble getting 60% of the results you are getting now and that's under ideal circumstances (1000OQ & maximum in the other capped stat--CD,UT,SR). Hmm, back to stockpiling weapons. Erg.

Padre

Logix, please get us some clarification on this issue. We need to understand what exactly this means for us.

As I am understanding this, it's basically the same as the one they proposed a while back. Which would mean it will nerf all weapons, and all other items in the game to have lower stats than now. It will make us even more dependant on high-quality resources, because the quality now does not influence the result linearly, but exponentially. And it will put non-Master smiths totally out of business. It woudl mess with all crafters, all customers, the whole economy.

Please go to TH and the devs, and please show me that I misunderstood this. Or, if they are really serious about this, make a hell of a noise about this change.

Thanks.

The experimentation code previously on TC was a fantastic system. Problem is, it was also a terribly bugged system. Frankly, if they can push it back to TC properly coded this time, I think it could do a lot of good for us. Bear in mind, we'll likely have over a month to mess with the code on TC; it's not like it's going to be going to Live immediately.

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Xieflow wrote:
Ingredients - Phrik Aluminum, Diatum Copper, Ostrine Carbonate Ore, Iroluun Reactive Gas, Polymer.

Thing is - Ostrine, Iroluun and Polymer do not have a score at all for Cd.

Does this mean it counts for 0, or is ignored? If the latter, than it's all good.


Err... I dunno how long you've been crafting, but I figured out how that worked a few weeks after paying attention to what was going on when I was crafting.

.....snip

Still, if you pay attention to what you put in, and do a bit of the math, you can see that a material without a stat is just ignored.

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Well thank you so kindly for the snide commentary but what I was hypothesising about was will that be the way it is in the NEW system. So if YOU pay attention, you'll notice that they stated stats aren't so much as ignored right now, they are just treated as maximum of range possible, so even non existent attributes are treated as '1000' (which I guess could be also read as ignoring but that's beside the point). So unless you know how the new system works, your reply to what I said is out of context and hence utterly irrelevant.

Sorry if I sound a tad hostile but I do not take kindly to be treated like an imbecile especially when you failed to read and comprehend what I said.

Totally sorry. I'm so used to explaining the *current* system to everyone.

You probably don't realize how many people don't know how any of the current stuff works, nor how many times I've explained it.

re-posted from artisan board ::::

I have some questions about this experimentation thing.

What the hell kinda explanation is that?

Is TH deliberatly trying to be vague?

Is it really that hard to write a clear, easy to understand outline?

Why is every exlanation of game mechanics always look like this?

Why do we players have to pour over things like these and then finally make a guess at what is being said?

Did TH actaully understand it himself before posting?

"Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item."

"Enhanced" - So this means its going to be better right?

"maximum value for the item" - What? The maximum value with perfect resources? The maximum value with the resoruces we are actually using? The maximum value calculated using the maximum quality possible with the resources we are using instead of just 1000 flat for all? ...and how about things like CD for polymer?

"Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount." - Ok, so this says the attribute will change a set amount per point with out considering what resoruces you use, eg. 1 exp point = +5 damage no matter what resources are plugged in to begin with. I can't guess at any other meaning for this.

"upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented" - As far as I know we can't experiment on resource attributes, but I sure as heck would like to experiment the CD of my current plumbum up a bit more

"Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used."- I'm guessing by "resource attribute" he means "item attribute"(ie. one of those lines in your experimentation window that you stuff points into). Then going by the previous sentence each exp point is worth a set increase (eg. damage +5), this would have to mean the number of points we can use on one attribute would be limited by the quality of the resource. Eg. if you have a combined resouce quality of 500 you might only get 5 spaces to put points into, if you have 900 quality you might get 9 spaces.

"This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand." - ......riiiiiiiiiiiight.

"This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players." - Hang on TH, didnt you say "Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount."

"However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes."

I don't know, it sounds an awful lot like the current system really, really badly explained. Atm each great success exp point is worth 7% increase and the number of points we can put in a single line is limited by the quality of our resources. I think here TH is saying that the effect of each point with no longer be a set percentage (eg 7%), but instead a set increase in the actual item stat value (eg +5 damage). So if this new system is better of not will depend on if that set stat increase if begger or smaller than the increase we see for our current 7%.

This aside, it still doesnt say how non-exsistant stats will be handled (no CD on polymer).

Someone else want to have a go at this one? I give up.

-Soar

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Jedi_Titus wrote:

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Eola wrote:

The new system (as written by Thunderheart above) would chage so that if theweapon maximum was 50%, and the base was 11% than all great successes would be worth (50-11)/10 = 3.9%, so that it would take all 10 successes to get to 50%. However if the max was 90% and the base 22%, all great successes would be worth (90-22)/10 = 7.8% so again it would take all 10 to maximize a given line.

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That is how the old change that we managed to get rejected was going to work.That is not how TH's post says it will work in his post. He says the % increase will be dependent on the max value forthe item. The improvement from an exp point will be independent of the quality of the resource used. That would increase not decrease the effects of our exp points, which is also pointed out in his post.

Just as a pointer, you have to read past the 'Devspeak' in the posts as well, in Devspeak nothing is EVER a nerf, it's always an 'enhancement', 'adjustment', or 'improvement'. So yes he said it would 'increase the effects of experimentation points', but that does not mean 'Increase the improvement in a gun for each experimentation point used'.

A far more likely translation is: 'Make it even harder to build a gun with less then 10 experimentation points', since after all if you make it so that 4 points can't ever max out aweapon even if it'sa 15% maximum, then you 'increase the effect of experimentation points', by decreasing what you can do if you don't have them.

Personally I've got my fingers crosses on this one. Till we have some hard data on it we really won't know if it is all that great. But what TH says sounds like a good change to me.

This is almost the exact same wording as the last change Jedi_Titus. In general I suggest being careful to always read exactly what the Devs are saying/suggesting, not just the adjectives they use. Remember how they were introducing that vendor 'improvement' of limiting the number of items because having alarge inventory of goods was hurting sales for those vendors... but also encouraging monopolies of a lot of sales by vendors with a large inventory of goods?

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Logix wrote:
The experimentation code previously on TC was a fantastic system. Problem is, it was also a terribly bugged system. Frankly, if they can push it back to TC properly coded this time, I think it could do a lot of good for us. Bear in mind, we'll likely have over a month to mess with the code on TC; it's not like it's going to be going to Live immediately.

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Then we will have over a month to reject this system...

from what i understand from dabbling in other crafts besides the 2 that were functioning well (weaponsmith and architect) is that most of the other crafts have problems in the coding of the experimentation... armor/med/chef are seriously bugged in that a great success doesn't always give the same % results that a great success on a gun does.... ran tests with armor segments... started @ 12%... first 3pt great was 21% increase... next 1 pt great was 6%... next 4%... then 2% and so forth... never able to completely max out the line (only have 8 pts atm to test with)

We as weaponsmiths do not see this happening (except for weapon stocks and the now fixed projectile feed mechanisms)

as it stands now the only thing bad resources do issetthe starting and final % we can get on an item... it takes every resource UNIT into account as well as the required attribute ratios (66/33)... say thecombined vaulesare 500... max % will be 50%... starting will be 15%... under the current system weaponsmiths will max out @ 50% after 5 Great successes @ 7%... the way i've read the changes so far (andheard from the other corrispondents)is that the oldbugged TC systemas well as the new TC system would take ALL 10 points to max out @ 50%...

I don't care how eloquent the code may seem but in my eyes itsa NERF plain and simple... and it is one that will DESTROY the game if implemented in such a fashion...

What we need from you Logix is SPECIFICS... and we need them NOW not 2 months down the line... I know SOE doesn't want the info out in the open because if this new system DOES work the way we think it will you will see mass exodus from this game to the competing products... HOWEVER if we are treated with complete disdain and disregard you will see the EXACT same thing...