Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Who is ready for 14 point smiths :)
Siymon wrote:
Crossover wrote:
So now to compete in crafting we have to be a jedi or spend 30mil+ on 20 exp?
meh =/.... 2 points you can live with, but other crafters being 4 points ahead.. uh oh
Think about it for a sec. It is going to do one of4 things.
1. Help you recover from a Mod success better
2. Add a little range
3. Add better ham
4. Add better durability
Non of that really affects the weapon to much. Once again, it is all about the resources.
He's right. Even as a ten-point weaponsmith with resources that are sufficiently good, you can max out the damage line and, depending on the weapon (T21's, which don't max at much higher than 65%, for example), improve the durability or something else a little bit. 12 points only lets you do exactly what he said...and 14 would just let you do that moreso. Okay, so you can put 1300 condition onto someone's krayt weapon....thats not going to make a 14 point WS the absolute dominant WS of a server.
Pirassi wrote:
I think the devs already stated that the force crafting abilities wont stack with skill tapes for crafting.
Actually, at FanFest, they said it WOULD stack. Check the jedi forums for a transcript of the Dev Q&A that was posted.
Personally, I am against it stacking. This is only going to increase the gap between the haves and the have nots. Running a successful AS or WS business is already a huge freakin' pain in the sack. Do the Devs have ANY idea the amount of time involved in a factory run of Composite, from start to finish? How about Rocket Launchers? You think any of them have actually sat down and worked out the mechanics and finances of a fact run of those puppies? Pffft. Now, add all the time futzing to get the perfect schem, the time spent resource hounding, surveying, checking harvs, inventorying resources, making all the subcomponent runs, getting a good schem for the final combine, the final combine runs, the vendor stocking and then...try to compete with someone who is +4 xp pts ahead of you. Good luck.
It's been clearly stated several times that the crafting aspect of the Forces Sensitive path is murky at best. Successful, established smiths that have 2nd accts with a combat focus will be burning through these quests as fast as they can, using their combat toon to help get the crafting toon the bonuses as fast as possible. Every other player gets left in the dust. Just incase you think I am an average player, griping about powergamers, check the sig. I want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.
xTeradocX wrote:
Right now, unless Im mistaked(havnt got all the skill tapes yet to test it). Its possible to be 13pt smith, you get the +20 from the SEA's, and then theres a food that gives another +10. But im not certain they stack right, has anyone else tested it?
Bespin port does not give extra points, it only increases the chance of getting a good result on experimentation. It's the same effect as city research specialization, and the effect is only visible when analyzing large amounts of data.
12 points is the current max. you can get +25 points in SEA's, but experiment points come 1 for 10 to skill points. So at 100 weapon experimentation skill (master weaponsmith), you get 10 experiment points. Since it rounds down, even at 109 skill points, you still get only 10 experiment ponts. So you have to get to 110 weapon exp skill toget 11 experiment points. at 120 skill, you get 12. At 125 skill (which is max due to +25 point cap on SEA's), then you still get only 12 experiment points.
New Jedi quest for crafters would add another 20 (?) skill points on weapon experimentation, which, like BE clothing, would stack with SEA's. So you would max at 145 weapon experiment skill, thus 14 experimentation points.
Yes, weaponsmith experimentation SEA's are insanely expensive since they are so rare, especially after they nerfed some of the caves that produced these SEA's. 10 million for a +5 WS expclothing attachmentis common. +1's are cheaperand more available, but unless youare shooting for just 11 experimentation points, then +1's don't help. Since you can only have 6 pieces of clothing on at once, plus the WS bandolier (+3 experimentation), then 6 +1 SEA's plus the +3 bandolier only gets you to 109 expimentation points, and is a long way from 120. Most WS'spay fora +5 or so tape, the +3 bandolier, and get a few +1's to get to 11 exp points... then try to buy more +3 to +5 tapes to make it to 120 points. Granted, they can't farm these SEA's themselves (another flaw in the game) so at least they can usually afford to buy them.
Yes, 12 points is a good thing for master WS's. Mostly its for making the high-end weapons using looted components. If you only have 10 points, and someone brings you nice ackley bones or krayt tissues to make a nice weapon from, you need to be sure that a couple of moderate successes doesn't hurt. Since these rare components are notorious for being hard to experiment on, then you are almost always going to get at least one or two moderate successes when experimenting. With 12 points, you are pretty much assured of getting to max speed/damage. And, its really nice to have a point or two extra to put on durability, since you want that weapon to last as long as possible. 14 points would just be more ofa good thing.
The good part (from a game balance perspective) is that the extra experiment points over 10 don't make that much difference when making regular weapons. Generally, a little extra durability or range is where the points go, and that doesn't change game balance at all.The way experimentation works on weapons, even throwing 5 points at range or HAM or durability does not make much difference- usually 10% to 25% difference is the max you can get. Speed/damage is where the balance issues are, and since that is capped by resources, then extra experiment points can't help you there (other than recovering from a experimentation failures). So, it really is just the hard-coresmiths that go the extra mile to get 11 or 12 experimentation points.
As for revamping the weapon damages, well as long as they don't nerf weapons overall, it would be nice if the level-1 skill weapons did less damage than the level 4 ones. Specifically, the way one weapon is better than all others is the problem (they should all be similar so that everyone can use what they like best). In most of the weapon classes, there is one weapon that is best and it seems to be random which skill that falls under. For 1-Handed, the curved sword is best, which requires only Brawler One-Handed I. In 2-Handed weapons, the 2H Curved sword is best, which requries Brawler Two-Handed II (except for Scythe Blade which only elites can afford), and in Polearms the Long Vibro Axe is best, but its a Polearms III weapon and there is nothing for Polearms IV. In Pistols, non-pistoleersjust use Scout blasters at Marksman Pistols II, but almost everyone who uses a pistol goes to novice pistoleer to use a ModifiedRepublic Blasteror DX-2. Thusthe11 other types of pistols are just a waste of graphics (the D18, DL44 and DL44 Metal, DH17,Power5, Striker, SR Combat, Tangle, FWG5 and Featherweight FGW5, standard Republic Blaster are rarely, if ever, used).
In my opinion, weapons like the striker pistol, which does kinetic damage, ought to do the same amount of damage as a scout blaster and other types, so that way you look for a vulnerablity in your target and choose the right weapon. As-is, even if target has 60% or more resistance to energy, its still better to use a modified republic blaster over any other type of weapon because stats on the modified republic are so much higher than other pistols. So thatis very unbalanced, in myopinion.
The really unfortunate part of weapondamagepatch is thatit is common practice to include the weapon's damage and speed in the name so that vendor shopping is easier. This is really a flaw in the vendor system, andshould befixed. But, in the mean time, 75% of weapons in the game have damage/speed stats in the name, and if those stats are retroactively changed by a patch,then thatwill create a big mess.I would suggest throwing players a bone byallowingeveryone to rename weapons, and not sure why this is not available today (if its greifing, then why allow the weapon maker to change the name? after all, I couldmake a D-18 pistol and name it a Scythe Blade and probably 25% of customers would buy it. So since that is allowed, what purpose does it serve to prevent name changes?). So my prediction is thatthe plan to retroactively change weapons will not fly. Too much public outcry, and too little thought put into the repercussions of such a change. Typical SWG dev move, ignoring the player input and just coming up with a bizarre plan and attempting to slide it into the game before anyone can raise a red flag. Maybe someday they will learn....
Message Edited by ElanMak on 06-07-2004 01:21 PM
I think 2 extra points from being a jedi, if thats how it works, would suck! Since when can a jedi "make" something better. I mean shoulda jedi smuggler also thenslice better too, ora jedi doctorheal more too? why should crafters, of all professions, be affected by the force! How unrealistic to the movie. I certainly hope i understand this wrongly, but is it that jedi weaponsmiths will be able to have 2 extra experimentation points, over and above any other weaponsmiths with the same wardrobe (i.e. sea's etc), all else being equal?There should not be an overlap of the force with crafting, just as there should not be with every other profession. 2 extra experimentation points DOES make a difference, yes in terms of durability/ham and range mainly, for weapons that are maxed out in dam/speed for instance, but basically marketability is the bottom line affected since all customers requesting custom crafts should, if they know anything, make sure the crafter has say 14 points, to help for those times u get moderate successes. just like crafters with 12 points now get more business, the same will happen with 14 points. PLEASE someone tell me if I'm understanding the intended changes wrongly.
also if they are bringing in crafting changes similar to the old crafting change from the 1 daythey changed the crafting a few patches back, i can safely say that anyone who does not have 14 points will be left in the dust, as the difference in weapons on that day between a weapon made with 10 exp points and 12 was considerable, and would be similar tothe difference between a 12 and 14, or even more for a 10 and 14.
my main gripe is jedi and crafting have no reason to overlap or affect each other. it is senseless. why crafting? completely makes no sense
Message Edited by Ladywolff on 06-07-2004 03:02 PM
Wyzchekyfirearms wrote:
The bad thing is, NOT all weaponsmiths are filthy rich. Personally I haven't had over 2mil in my bank account at any one time. I sell weapons all the time, but, I mainly just work for my guild helping them out so they dont have to go out and pay 250k to 1mil for a really good quality weapon. I have made weapons that can match up to most anyones (well except Fatal) who hardly anyone can match either in resources or bank account. So how can some of us compare to that? Personally I am only a 10pt WS, and the chances of becoming a 12point are slim to none. The new Force points supposedly coming to smiths, is a mixed blessing, yeah it helps us 10 pts, but it doesnt really change the gap between them any. Just my humble observations.
Wyzcheky
I am a 12 point smith.... It took me almost 7 months to get here. I am planning on taking time off to become force sensitive and become a 14pointer. I have spent 80% of my time on my craft. I am not a combat class. I had to work real hard to get those tapes and I plan on working real hard to become even better. New smiths will be able to get those 2 extra points in the same manner.
Those who made the point that the extra points dont really make a huge difference in normal weapons are correct though. All too often we talk about brand new players becoming smiths... what about those who suddenly got bored of looting everything in sight. I don't know much about other servers, but I have seen many veteran players become weapons smiths with very large bank accounts to start off with. I find mysef losing more auctions to these players than to established smiths. In my opinion the FS smithing will be a tool to seperate those who dabble and those who are entirely committed to the craft like myself.