Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: DPS is worthless. Post-CU, only DPA matters
Well made powerup reduces SAC by 30% at cost of -15 accuracy.
Accuracy also influences damage output, but testing indicates that at master level (200+ accuracy) another 50 accuracy points increase damage output by 16 in pvp, so -15 mod from pup is neglegible.
This means that you down 120 SAC weapon to 80 with the pup - and any SAC below 85 is actually low enough to keep firing almost all the time provided you have food and spice on. With doc buff you will not have action problem at all.
Conclusion - screw speed, screw SAC, put all in damage, when you got some experimentation points left they can either go into SAC (to even further aleviate action problem) or into speed (to increase the DPS stat).
However, for average Joe WeaponBuyer DPS dictates which weapon is best, and as it was mentioned above, that's the way to have sales.
For your experienced customers you can always made dedicated weapon runs experimented differently.
Curby wrote:
laodamas wrote:
This damage is not based on dps, its based off of max weapon damage.
Not quite. Both min and max dmg matter.Example:CL80 vs 80 PVP, improved head hit331-895 hammer does 775 dmg before armor reduction384-894 hammer does 802 dmgbefore armor reductionAverage dmg of first hammer is 613Average dmg of second hammer is 639Difference of average dmg is 26Difference of actual pre-armor dmg is 25
interesting... my test with pistols and about the same variation in min dmg resulted in only a 14pt difference.
Mor-Dan wrote:
Curby wrote:
laodamas wrote:
This damage is not based on dps, its based off of max weapon damage.
Not quite. Both min and max dmg matter.
Example:
CL80 vs 80 PVP, improved head hit
331-895 hammer does 775 dmg before armor reduction
384-894 hammer does 802 dmgbefore armor reduction
Average dmg of first hammer is 613
Average dmg of second hammer is 639
Difference of average dmg is 26
Difference of actual pre-armor dmg is 25
interesting... my test with pistols and about the same variation in min dmg resulted in only a 14pt difference.
A problem we run into trying to calculate what the actual damage output is is the relationship of your accuracy vs opponets defence. Too bad the Devs wont give us the formula so we can tweak our product for max output.
samijx wrote:
QFE in red.
What is QFE?
QFE = Quoted For Emphasis.
ok chucking in some other info..
Firstly COMBAT LEVEL itself is ignored for PvP... (only direct effect is the health level of the toons)
I regularly PvP with my level 54 WS/carbineer and win about 85% of the time vs CL 80 toons ( and then mail them a wpt to my shop - its a real good way to advertise 
the damage done formula is something like this..
with ranged/melee hit.. (same principle applies for ANY other special - but has an additional multiplier)
if your acc is significantly lower than opponents defence (not exactly sure on this value but i think its around 250-300ish)
then you do the minimum damage on your weapon x the damage mod of the attack
the inverse is also true - 250-300 points greater acc than your opponents defence = you do the weapons max dam x the damage mod of the attack.
there is a sliding non linear scale between these two extremes
So weapons with a very tight min/max damage range will do simular damages vs any target regardless of defence/acc/cl
A'ru
Xeovar wrote:
While in general I agree that DPA is really very important, there is one thing that changes the equation significantly - the action cost powerup.
Well made powerup reduces SAC by 30% at cost of -15 accuracy.
Accuracy also influences damage output, but testing indicates that at master level (200+ accuracy) another 50 accuracy points increase damage output by 16 in pvp, so -15 mod from pup is neglegible.
This means that you down 120 SAC weapon to 80 with the pup - and any SAC below 85 is actually low enough to keep firing almost all the time provided you have food and spice on. With doc buff you will not have action problem at all.
Conclusion - screw speed, screw SAC, put all in damage, when you got some experimentation points left they can either go into SAC (to even further aleviate action problem) or into speed (to increase the DPS stat).
However, for average Joe WeaponBuyer DPS dictates which weapon is best, and as it was mentioned above, that's the way to have sales.
For your experienced customers you can always made dedicated weapon runs experimented differently.
samijx wrote:
Well...my advise is to get your SAC to a level where your acton bar is managable. This includes using foods and power-ups to modify both your weapon andcharacter until the SAC is managable... whatever that may be: X food with Y power-up and SAC of Z (maybe 77 or so) then go find the best weapon you can yield that get's your SAC down to 77. You can comprimise by getting a 78 or 79...but try and stay near that target. You will enjoy combat much much more.
Just remeber, the key isn't "SAC/Damage" or"Lowest SAC possible" You need to find the SAC that works well with your character, then maximize thedamage on your weapon that still provides a speed of less than about 2.
Message Edited by samijx on 06-12-2005 08:50 AM
QFE in red.
So that's how the damage calculation works when you hit...
(maximum damage - minimum damage) = damage range
(Accuracy - defense)/(accuracy) = percentage difference on hit
(Minimum damage+ (damage range*percentage difference)) * special attack modifier= damage done to target before armor.
samijx wrote:
Just remeber, the key isn't "SAC/Damage" or"Lowest SAC possible" You need to find the SAC that works well with your character, then maximize thedamage on your weapon
Message Edited by Curby on 06-13-2005 10:51 PM
This information is good. I will give you that. But it does not take ACCURACY into effect.
In terms of accuracy: Isn't it defensesVS accuarcy = damage modifer? If this is correct, then SAC will matter depending how long you can fire because the fight could be longer.
The other thing you have to take into effect is misses over time. Misses will make the data better.
Additionally, the weapons that get made will either be for the DPS crowd, or those that know what their skill mods are, clothing, food/spice/buffs, skill tapes, and powerups. Add all that together and you can determine what your custom made weapon should be.
It is true that it all depends on your play style. But in my mind, it is all about accuracy. If you can't hit it you are done no matter what the other stats of your weapon.
If we know what the law of diminishing returns brings forspeed(is it thecap or is it the mods?) or SAC (what isthe baseregen rate or your own regen rate based on foods/buffs/spices) etc(or moreso whenthe law of diminishing returnsis negligible) we as WS's will be able to build a better weapon based on the toon in question. It is all about the customization at this point.
All the weapons stats work in tandem to a degree as well. I hit something because I am accurate, based on my DPS I can hit the creature this much because of its defenses, the faster I fire the more hits I can get in depending on how much action I use or the amount of action in my pool. If you don't hit, you won't have this scenario happen. It is as simple as that.
Accuracy kick starts this whole process. It is like boolean logic here folks. It is the basis of circuitry logic. If not A then B. That sort of thing. We have to think outside of the box here. All this info being posted on individual threads is great. We need to tie it together now.