Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The Armor Piercing System [Preliminary Data]
No pls be one of those ppl ans sticky this it affects an awful lot of ppl ingame and referrence material like this should be stickied!
also bumping has the negative affect of seperating valuable info from SPAM. In between again this is an important issue that affects all classes! I am posting a link to it in the riflemen forums if there isn't one there already!
Oh and mate you rock!
/Bump
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=18643
Note also: The proposed idea, where AP halves (or doubles) resistances is moronic, and would be a MAJOR reverse nerf for every AP weapon in the game. The more AP you have, the bigger the nerf. Thus, Riflemen, Carbineers, and Swordsmen would be on the receiving end of a huge, serious downgrade in their damage-dealing effectiveness.
Right, you receive no armor piercing damage bonus for fighting a vulnerable target.
However, if your target is AP0, but still has like, 5% resists, you will receive the AP bonus.
Alright, verified that the same rules do in fact apply to PvP... leading me to believe that vulnerability giving no AP bonuses is a bug, not by design.
Small scenario. PvP. You are wearing a composite helmet.. 53% resistance to energy. Your opponent is a rifleman using a T21(AP3) and doing headshots. You actually take MORE damage being shot in the head with your helmet on than if you take it off. This is kinda silly.
So now.. if I'm in a PvP situation.. I see a rifleman shooting at my head with a T21.. if I take my helmet off, I'm more protected. Hehe.. yeah.. silly.
Please pass this information on to the Devs, Logix... cuz it's obviously a bug.
Well, actually, you'd be taking less damage with a 53% helm. :>
But with a helm with less than 35% resist, then you'd be taking more damage against a T21. So if you're up against a Rifleman and your Composite isn't so hot, better get naked.
No, the t21's AP3 is actually a 95% bonus or so.. when all multipliers are done. The bonus from higher AP seems to be done before the resistance check.
The reason I used that example.. is because that was the setup I used:a composite helmet with 53% 
. With that combination, the floaty numbers were bigger than the combat spam.. so still giving a bonus.
Logix wrote:
Keldarin said last week:
There is one important adjustment you should make on your numbers. Raphayl, you increased the damage of armor piercing weapons versus lower rating armors. This is incorrect. The damage output of a weapon will not go up versus lower rated armor ever. The weapon will do more damage to the armor, but not the target. This caused many of your averages to be higher than they should have been.
Have you let the Devs know that they are incorrect and the Armor system is currently bugged? Just had to make sure, since this change was done a while back and the above post makes me wonder if the devs have not know it was not working for all this time. Up until now, i've always been assumed that the unamored vuln giving 0%was the bug, not the rest of the armor system. 
--Rorrimot
Yeah, as I said above (noted in blue text), that post was the thread I made in the Correspondent forums. I haven't gotten a Dev response yet, but damned if I'm not going to keep bumping that thread until they plug in their own formula and realize it's inaccurate. If need be, I'm going to try to push it to the Rifleman Correspondent so it gets enough activity to push it to their Top 5 issues. Unfortunately, I think the Weaponsmith community would be very displeased with me if I tried to put the AP system as one of our top issues, heh.
meyer1215 wrote:
Have you let the Devs know that they are incorrect and the Armor system is currently bugged? Just had to make sure, since this change was done a while back and the above post makes me wonder if the devs have not know it was not working for all this time. Up until now, i've always been assumed that the unamored vuln giving 0%was the bug, not the rest of the armor system.
Logix wrote:
Yeah, as I said above (noted in blue text), that post was the thread I made in the Correspondent forums. I haven't gotten a Dev response yet, but damned if I'm not going to keep bumping that thread until they plug in their own formula and realize it's inaccurate. If need be, I'm going to try to push it to the Rifleman Correspondent so it gets enough activity to push it to their Top 5 issues. Unfortunately, I think the Weaponsmith community would be very displeased with me if I tried to put the AP system as one of our top issues, heh.
The thing is, the way Armor and Armor Piercing works in the game is NOT broken. (Well, mostly not broken.)
The Advanced Guide: Armor Fundamentals was written months ago, before I started, and probably back in beta. It was written by one of the Devs, and it's the official SOE guide to How Armor and Armor Piercing Works(tm).
And if you read the guide, you will see that what it describes is almost exactly what we have confirmed with our testing. AP gets a bonus to damage if it's higher than the AR of the target, and gets a penalty to damage if it's lower than the AR of the target. This is what the guide says. This is what our testing confirms.
So the problem is not with the way armor and armor piercing works in the game. The problem is that swgdevbhanson didn't know how armor piercing worked in the game two months ago when he wrote the post describing AP as halving the resistances when the AP was higher, and increasing by 25% the resistances when the AP was lower.
We hashed all of it out two months ago on the Rifleman forums. You can read the thread here if you like. It was swgdevbhanson's post that prompted me to do my own armor testing to see who was wrong and who was right. My tests demonstrated that Armor and Armor Piercing work like the guide says they do, and they don't work like swgdevbhanson said they did. Maybe he's been edumacated since then, maybe he hasn't.
I'm not certain why a 2-month old inaccurate description of the Armor/Armor Piercing system in SWG is suddenly getting renewed attention. I sincerely hope it's NOT because they're talking about implementing the revised armor system. Such a system would be a MAJOR, EXTREME, INSANE reverse nerf on every AP weapon in the game, with the medium and heavy AP weapons being most affected.
Then can you kindly explain why wearing a helmet can make you take MORE damage than not wearing a helmet?
Armor piercing is NOT working properly. If this isn't a weaponsmith/armorsmith issue, then whose issue is it? I'd have no problem seeing this as our number 1 issue personally.
VolstedGridban wrote:
The thing is, the way Armor and Armor Piercing works in the game is NOT broken. (Well, mostly not broken.)
Because it isn't two months old anymore. I have a different Developer telling us the exact same statements, posted just last week. He also stated the Armor Guide was inaccurate and out of date.
Look, I'm not peddling for AP nerfs here, but the system is broken. The whole thing causing levels of resistances to be worthless is just ridiculous.
Moreover, 1000 headshot with T21 against 90% energy resistant opponent = 156 floaty damage.
The remaining 156 damage of that headshot is cut, it takes 1.25 damage and puts it into the armor and damages it. So you are actually doing 125 damage to the mindpool and 31 damage to the armor. In PvE, you're still doing 125 damage to the mindpool and 31 damage goes into nothing. Floaty != actual damage being done to HAM, right now.
Message Edited by Logix on 12-02-2003 02:07 AM