Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: ALR used an exp. pt during crafting to go from 1178 to cap and nothing changed.
My unenhanced ALR's come out at 980 max damage. I would need tissues or celss of 204 damage to cap an ALR with the way I currently experiment on sub components. I made one the other day with similiar cells, experimented on damage on components, after sac, instead of speed. It came out at 1177 max damage, and 2.92 speed. It knew it was getting speed sliced so I tried my hardest to double cap it.
When I'm experimenting, and I'm debating whether or not to put that extra point into damage, I look at the little bar under the damage experimentation line. If that is full, or only has one tick left, I move on and experiment in something else.
whippet wrote:
Thats not the point though, point is, a -15 stock is 9 points of SAC that you need off the other components compared to a -24 SAC stock, in effect stealing some damage from yourself as you could have used a -9 ABPH and pushed more experimentation into damage. Which would have achived at least a damage figure over 1180 if not the magical 1184 itself.
the first ALR I crafted went way past the sac cap and hit 76 upon assembly, and was then refitted to be 82. That is alot of wasted experimentation. So I adjusted with my stock and the assembly this time came to 84. With one xp pt it went to 81.7 (refitted to 82) which is close to perfect as far as not wasting much.
as soon as the server comes up I will try to make an unenhanced version of my ALR. I'm understanding more of what you guys are saying but it still doesn't make sense to me. The EPC's enhance a component of the gun so I don't know why it would also determine how much you can experiment on the gun after assembly. The 184 went into the blaster power handler so why would this number be used again to determine max experimentation on the gun. Why wouldn't max experimentation be 100% or if you run out of bars to use in a specific line.
maybe as I craft the baseline gun it will help me understand.
flounder05 wrote:
True, but then his speed would have been higher, and oh my god, the what if's, my head is gonan explode.
yes his speed would be higher, but speed can be sliced. and in this he case he would have got very very close to the damage cap.
Make an unenhanced ALR, leave off the stock if you wish, since we're focusing on damage here. But put in the other sub components with the same experimentation as you did on the other one.
Max the damage usuing the same resources you would for a loot made weapon. I only this since I only do loot made and have some barely lesser resources I use for base weapons when a guildie needs one.
Once you have your max damage, add the 184 or whatever from the Enhanced power cell. This will tell you what your max damage will be.
For example, my unenhanced ALR, with SAC experimented components come out as 980 max damage. To, with the same experimentation method on sub components, using power cells, and assuming all great successes (at a minimum) I should get an ALR with a max damage of 1164.
The knowledge of game mechanics shown by my fellow wepsmiths never ceases to amaze me.
At the risk of further muddying the waters, let me take a crack at it.
When you log on and create an unenhanced ALR, assuming you make it exactly the way you made the enhanced one, I predict the max damage will come out to 994 (1178-184). And I think you will find that is where the problem lies. 1184(cap)-184(your enhancer)=1000(needed to cap that weapon with your enhancer). i think you already know this, though.
Getting back to WTH happened to that last experimentation point, going purely on conjecture I think that the 'potential or Cap2' bar was probably within a tick of being filled, meaning that you had reached the limit of what your resources would allow, therefor the expermentation point didn't affect the Max dam and probably raised the min damage.
As I read what I wrote, I'm not sure I've put it any more clearly and you should probably ignore this post
Short answer, If the unenhanced one you build Identically to the enhanced one doesn't hit 1000 max dam, you're not going to be able to cap it.
*2nd prediction: you might find you get the same 'disappearing' last experimentation point on damage that you had with your enhanced build.
Alristico wrote:
as soon as the server comes up I will try to make an unenhanced version of my ALR. I'm understanding more of what you guys are saying but it still doesn't make sense to me. The EPC's enhance a component of the gun so I don't know why it would also determine how much you can experiment on the gun after assembly. It doesn't affect how much you can experiment, just your starting damage before experimentation.The 184 went into the blaster power handler so why would this number be used again to determine max experimentation on the gun.Why wouldn't max experimentation be 100% The resources determine the % experimentation possible, unless your resources are perfect, you won't get 100% experimentation. or if you run out of bars to use in a specific line.
maybe as I craft the baseline gun it will help me understand.
you say my baseline gun should be 1178 - 184 = 994. But I got at least one amazing and that was with about 7 or 8 pts in the dmg line. That should have more than made up for the 6dmg difference. My guess is that I hit the resource cap.
GrooperNugent wrote:
Alristico wrote:
as soon as the server comes up I will try to make an unenhanced version of my ALR. I'm understanding more of what you guys are saying but it still doesn't make sense to me. The EPC's enhance a component of the gun so I don't know why it would also determine how much you can experiment on the gun after assembly. It doesn't affect how much you can experiment, just your starting damage before experimentation.
My starting dmg was 1021 upon assemply with the 184 epc's. Why is everyone telling me I hit a premature cap based on the 184 value then?
The 184 went into the blaster power handler so why would this number be used again to determine max experimentation on the gun.Why wouldn't max experimentation be 100% The resources determine the % experimentation possible, unless your resources are perfect, you won't get 100% experimentation.
This seems like what might have happened. I don't remember what the experimentation percentage was before I used that last pt but I remember it was 97% afterward. So it was probably 97% before. Thats my guess at least.
Great success = 7%
Amazing success = 8%
so, it would take roughly 9 great successes to get the same result as 8 amazings.
I think you did too.
Alristico wrote:
you say my baseline gun should be 1178 - 184 = 994. But I got at least one amazing and that was with about 7 or 8 pts in the dmg line. That should have more than made up for the 6dmg difference. My guess is that I hit the resource cap.
An amazing result will not allow you to exceed the resource caps. An amazing result simply increases the % change made by that experiment.
Edited because my Amazing/Great ratio was off
Message Edited by GrooperNugent on 09-15-2005 11:08 AM
Alristico wrote:
you say my baseline gun should be 1178 - 184 = 994. But I got at least one amazing and that was with about 7 or 8 pts in the dmg line. That should have more than made up for the 6dmg difference. My guess is that I hit the resource cap.
GrooperNugent wrote:
Alristico wrote:
as soon as the server comes up I will try to make an unenhanced version of my ALR. I'm understanding more of what you guys are saying but it still doesn't make sense to me. The EPC's enhance a component of the gun so I don't know why it would also determine how much you can experiment on the gun after assembly. It doesn't affect how much you can experiment, just your starting damage before experimentation.
My starting dmg was 1021 upon assemply with the 184 epc's. Why is everyone telling me I hit a premature cap based on the 184 value then?
The 184 went into the blaster power handler so why would this number be used again to determine max experimentation on the gun.Why wouldn't max experimentation be 100% The resources determine the % experimentation possible, unless your resources are perfect, you won't get 100% experimentation.
This seems like what might have happened. I don't remember what the experimentation percentage was before I used that last pt but I remember it was 97% afterward. So it was probably 97% before. Thats my guess at least.
Alristico wrote:
Hmmz i don't know if you could say 28% = 98%. But if you stock the normal weapons just check those then add your extra enhanced dmg ( 184 ) to that weapon.
i don't think many smiths even see this Offcourse if you make the difference a bit bigger it saves you from using a point on sac in the final assembly i'll make a big post with examples etc.
Alristico wrote:
Summerflame wrote:
Alristico wrote:
the resources are the best that ever spawned on the server, im an fs crafter with all the fixin's, the experimentation attempt was a great success, cap on Adv Laser rifle is 1184 and one whole exp. point with a great success should have been more than enough to get me there.
The thing is that the amount of damage a xp poiint will raise your weapon varies. Sometimes i raises the min a lot more than the max and sometimes the otherway around. if you rmax dam already was capped out on it potential then it wont raise it more even though there is room for more experimentation, which is why I ask the 2 questions
1. Did min dam improve?
not sure, wasn't paying attention to it on the last experimentation.
2. Did you calculate that the Enhancers where enough to cap the weapon? (What is your max dam on your unenhanced lasers and what was the stats of your enhancers?)
I don't know how to calculate that.
i don't understand this.
Summerflame wrote:
Alristico wrote:
the resources are the best that ever spawned on the server, im an fs crafter with all the fixin's, the experimentation attempt was a great success, cap on Adv Laser rifle is 1184 and one whole exp. point with a great success should have been more than enough to get me there.
if you rmax dam already was capped out on it potential then it wont raise it more