Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The 12-point myth dispelled.
Page 1 of 4
Rage_Frost
Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:47 pm
#1
while a 10 pointer can max out damage what about the extra points the 12 pointer's get to put into ham Range and Cond... in this system
Sorry take a 10 pointer makeing VK on the VBU he going to have enough just to max out damage now the hams are high
Now he makes a VK out of the VBU with high hams now he maxes out damage hams are hugh who going to buy a 38-40 mind ham VK?
and with CU comming that 2 extra points well matter
were getting to exp speed and Damage Seperate from each other
So it well look like
Row 1 Speed
Row 2 Damage
Row 3 Enhanced Damage "heat,cold,etc etc"
Row 4move Cost
A 10 pointer well max out damage or go half and half speed and damage with the 12 pointers well have one 2 extra points i can see the CU makeing a 12 pointer mean more then it does now
This is my two cents flame away
And a WS with Total maxed Assembly does make a Hugh Diffrence I get a good success or lower what once every 1000 weapon if that.
Message Edited by Rage_Frost on 04-02-2005 05:49 PM
ssj3_vegetto
Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:25 pm
#2
Ok, so down to business here. I'm fed up of people flocking toward the weaponsmiths who advertise themselves under the "12 point quality" banner, and I'm also tired of some Weaponsmiths thinking that this is the holy grail of weapon crafting. So, I'm going to post this here and in my galaxy trade and galaxy forums. I encourage WSs of other servers to repost or link this in theirs as well.
A 12-point weaponsmith cannot make weapons/components that are any more "uber" than a 10-point smith using the same resources. Example: my base(unenhaced by tissues) Advanced Blaster Power Handlers, the gun component that Krayt tissues go into, are exactly the same statsas Ralyais', a well-known 12-point smith on my server. The ONLY thing that those extra 2 experimentation points practically go to is durability (condition), or (and this is the only reason I see to have those 2 points) they can help recover from a failed or "moderate sucess" experimentation attempt. Now, you might ask, "Why not put points into ham cost or range mods? The CU is coming, buffs are getting nerfed I want low ham costs." Well, it's because it's a waste. For every experimentation point you put into ham cost, you will get 1 point less ham cost in 1 or 2 of the 3 stats. Same goes for range mods, except on some occasions you get 2 points added to the ideal range mod.
Let me now explain my earlier example of the Adv Handlers. Know how I did it? It was a piece of cake. Originally, my handlers had 1 less point of maximum damage, so y'know what I did? I got some better polymer, one of the resources involved in making APBHs. If I had gotten another experimentation point instead, then I would still be making inferior APBHs, because the resources determine the experimentation cap on everything and anything you make, not how many experimentation points you have. The only things that go through my mind when I see someone prancing about saying "12-point weaponsmith weapons stocked!!!"are "Jeez that guy has way too much money," and "I wonder how many customers I'll lost to that idiot because they honestly believe 12-point means uber." That's it. Hopefully this post will help get rid of that second thought.
Thank you for your time.
~Blackstarvegeto
C.E.O. BLACK Weaponsmithy Corporation
TJMaverick
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:33 pm
#4
Actually 12 pt smiths do have an advantage, not only on final condition but on subcomponents too. Us 12pt'ers can experiment on more range, and ham costs on certain sub components, like stocks, barrels, scopes etc.
As well as that we can add condition and take away ham on the final combine.
Coonsan
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:08 pm
#5
im a 10 pt WS, thanx for this post its true
but, every once and a while i might be able to put anotehr 1-2 pts in damage on something not often but here and there..
but, every once and a while i might be able to put anotehr 1-2 pts in damage on something not often but here and there..
weaponmaster88
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:09 pm
#6
ssj3_vegetto wrote:
Ok, so down to business here. I'm fed up of people flocking toward the weaponsmiths who advertise themselves under the "12 point quality" banner, and I'm also tired of some Weaponsmiths thinking that this is the holy grail of weapon crafting. So, I'm going to post this here and in my galaxy trade and galaxy forums. I encourage WSs of other servers to repost or link this in theirs as well.
A 12-point weaponsmith cannot make weapons/components that are any more "uber" than a 10-point smith using the same resources. Example: my base(unenhaced by tissues) Advanced Blaster Power Handlers, the gun component that Krayt tissues go into, are exactly the same statsas Ralyais', a well-known 12-point smith on my server. The ONLY thing that those extra 2 experimentation points practically go to is durability (condition), or (and this is the only reason I see to have those 2 points) they can help recover from a failed or "moderate sucess" experimentation attempt. Now, you might ask, "Why not put points into ham cost or range mods? The CU is coming, buffs are getting nerfed I want low ham costs." Well, it's because it's a waste. For every experimentation point you put into ham cost, you will get 1 point less ham cost in 1 or 2 of the 3 stats. Same goes for range mods, except on some occasions you get 2 points added to the ideal range mod.
Let me now explain my earlier example of the Adv Handlers. Know how I did it? It was a piece of cake. Originally, my handlers had 1 less point of maximum damage, so y'know what I did? I got some better polymer, one of the resources involved in making APBHs. If I had gotten another experimentation point instead, then I would still be making inferior APBHs, because the resources determine the experimentation cap on everything and anything you make, not how many experimentation points you have. The only things that go through my mind when I see someone prancing about saying "12-point weaponsmith weapons stocked!!!"are "Jeez that guy has way too much money," and "I wonder how many customers I'll lost to that idiot because they honestly believe 12-point means uber." That's it. Hopefully this post will help get rid of that second thought.
Thank you for your time.
~Blackstarvegeto
C.E.O. BLACK Weaponsmithy Corporation
well true of now... completly not true in a month... speed and damage will be seperate lines.... so no1 will be able to cap both if even 1 line, so the extra 2 points will mean -.3/-.5 speed or +20 damage.
Buzziewaaba
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:17 pm
#7
ssj3_vegetto wrote:
Ok, so down to business here. I'm fed up of people flocking toward the weaponsmiths who advertise themselves under the "12 point quality" banner, and I'm also tired of some Weaponsmiths thinking that this is the holy grail of weapon crafting. So, I'm going to post this here and in my galaxy trade and galaxy forums. I encourage WSs of other servers to repost or link this in theirs as well.
A 12-point weaponsmith cannot make weapons/components that are any more "uber" than a 10-point smith using the same resources. Example: my base(unenhaced by tissues) Advanced Blaster Power Handlers, the gun component that Krayt tissues go into, are exactly the same statsas Ralyais', a well-known 12-point smith on my server. The ONLY thing that those extra 2 experimentation points practically go to is durability (condition), or (and this is the only reason I see to have those 2 points) they can help recover from a failed or "moderate sucess" experimentation attempt. Now, you might ask, "Why not put points into ham cost or range mods? The CU is coming, buffs are getting nerfed I want low ham costs." Well, it's because it's a waste. For every experimentation point you put into ham cost, you will get 1 point less ham cost in 1 or 2 of the 3 stats. Same goes for range mods, except on some occasions you get 2 points added to the ideal range mod.
Let me now explain my earlier example of the Adv Handlers. Know how I did it? It was a piece of cake. Originally, my handlers had 1 less point of maximum damage, so y'know what I did? I got some better polymer, one of the resources involved in making APBHs. If I had gotten another experimentation point instead, then I would still be making inferior APBHs, because the resources determine the experimentation cap on everything and anything you make, not how many experimentation points you have. The only things that go through my mind when I see someone prancing about saying "12-point weaponsmith weapons stocked!!!"are "Jeez that guy has way too much money," and "I wonder how many customers I'll lost to that idiot because they honestly believe 12-point means uber." That's it. Hopefully this post will help get rid of that second thought.
Thank you for your time.
~Blackstarvegeto
C.E.O. BLACK Weaponsmithy Corporation
Yes resources make the weaponsmith. Keep in mind though you can't make most of your weapons over 1k condition unless the the resource cap is low. You can't get; Higher Range, Lower Ham or Higher wound percentages. Fact is if you care about the little things then you'll go to a 12 point smith if you don't then you'll go to a 10 point smith. Personally it depends on what side of the tracks your on: Either you aren't a 12 pointer or you are not a 12 pointer. Whichever side of the tracks you are one is the side you argue for.
Scorpy_LF
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:24 pm
#8
Its better to focus the credits on resources before 12-point. On Corbantis I've seen many weaponsmiths go for 12 points first, and end up going out of business because they can not compete with the people with better resources. For instance, my DX2 Pistols. I'm making DX2's with 166 max damage. There might be 2 other smiths on our server who come close, but for the most part many are still right around 159 - 162 max damage. I'm I'm mearly a 11 - point smith, which I only managed recently as I have only been focusing on resources.
The largest difference I have seen in improvement is mostly melee weapons. The extra points in the sub components can help with accuracy a good bit. Ranged weapons its not quite as big of an issue as you can generally only improve Ideal Range. And when people are buying weapons, they don't pay much attention to range mods. And with top end weapons, many people don't even focus on condition any more with Anti Decay Kits available.
XobNoics
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:25 pm
#9
Buzziewaaba wrote:
Fact is if you care about the little things then you'll go to a 12 point smith if you don't then you'll go to a 10 point smith. Personally it depends on what side of the tracks your on: Either you aren't a 12 pointer or you are not a 12 pointer. Whichever side of the tracks you are one is the side you argue for.
/agree
If you don't think the extra condition/range or lower HAM cost is beneficial... more power to you.
If you think the extra condition/range or lower HAM cost is beneficial... more power to you.
Pohacca
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:28 pm
#10
Your handlers are the same because there's only one tree to experiment on. If there were seperate trees for speed and damage who's would be better? The 12pt, of course. Besides, the more points you have in experimentation, the better chance you have of getting a great or amazing result.
Wait till the changes come about and we'll see which side of the tracks you walk on.
Wait till the changes come about and we'll see which side of the tracks you walk on.
laodamas
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:06 pm
#11
Player A comes to weaponsmith with a nice set of 11 150 damage tissues to make a T21. Player A sees weaponsmiths normal T21 is 405 max damage and expects to get his T21 back at 555 damage. Weaponsmith is not a 12 pter and on final combine gets a moderate success and turns out funal product of 520 max damage because he cant recover.
Now who's better, a 12 pointer that could recover and get that gun up to 555 damage or the 10 pointer who just lost 30 or so max damage on a set of rare tissue?
KRONOS1974
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:32 pm
#12
12 pt smith will always be better than 10. Lot of variations that you dont add to your posts.
And the fact you talk about CU, you also know that speed and damage will be 2 different lines now? That means you will have to use more points to get better weapons. SO again id rather have 12 than 10.
And when you buy a 405 max dam t21 with 105+ mind cost compared to a 405 max dam t21 with 90 min cost there is a huge difference.
And what happens when you get those uber bones, tissues, or weapons? You want to add better condition to it, though with ADK it diesnt matter much anymore.
Basicaly when you want a good weapon made, it is better having 12 pts put into it than 10.
Dont get me wrong, 10 pts do just as well as 12 pts. And you dont need 12 pts. But the fact is a 10pt smith wont beat a 12 pt smith overall. Might match damage and speed- but thats it. 12pt will have better HAM, Condition, and/or Range.
As stated above what happens when a customer gives you uber components to make a weapon and you roll a moderate roll? Will 10 pt smith have enough to recover?
Having 2 extra points to throw into a weapon is always nice. And if you are going to be master of your profession you should always try to make best you can.
If you do well without 12pts - congrats. Im glad for you but i prefer 12.
Standardlager
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:33 pm
#13
What makes the weaponsmith??
In my opinion they are the following:
1. Resources
2. Customer Service.
3. 12 pts of Experimentation
4. + (fill in the blank) to Assembly.
With the CURB coming those 12 points will likely carry a lot more weight.
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