Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Consolidating Feedback and Concerns on the Combat Upgrade
I'm sure many of you aware by now that the Combat Upgrade will soon be on a Test Center server, and ready for testing. I know many of you must have a ton of questions about what will be changed, and how, so I thought I'd make a place to track and organize all your concerns, things we're going to want to test thoroughly, and provide answers to questions. I'll put a few of my own up for now, and incorporate your responses as appropriate.
- Weapon Balance
- Ensure that no particular weapons are overpowered with respect to others, even at the extremes of their craftable levels
- Judging by the numbers off the frogs, it seems there will still be problems with only 1-2 weapons being viable at master
- The utility of several other weapons could be greatly increased by increasing the elemental damage on such weapons to a reasonable level. Some 30 pts out of700 does not make it useful with respect to a 900 damage weapon without an elemental modifier.
- Weapon caps are extremely unpopular. Having hard caps takes away the WS ability to "squeak out" additional points at the high end. Those subtle differences are where WS's distinguish themselves.
- Ensure that no professions are inherently imbalanced due to weapon choice / certifications
- This point is made all butmoot by the cross profession certifications. By and large, the WS community hates what this will mean for weapon utility.
- Weapon Schematics
- Ensure that all new and old schematics are craftable
- Ensure that the schematics require appropriate amounts of reasonable resources
- As of right now, it appears there are no new named resource requirements on any of the new schematics
- As far as I know, there have been no changes to any resourcesin the old schematics
- Ensure that all craftable components are given a specific and important use
- It seems that the adv. components have been appropriately adjusted, and the new schematic requirements make both basic and adv. components useful
- The Heavy Warhead Mechanism remains strictly a grind item. It is not used by any weapon schematics.
- Weapon Certifications
- Ensure that certifications are logically placed throughout the WS skilltree to correlate with their respective position in combat skilltrees
- Ensure that all craftable weapons are given certifications by some profession
- Again,level based certs have made this a moot point. The WS community feels that level based certifications will be disastrous for the utility of all but master level weapons.
Cheers (unclassified things to make you smile 
)
- Loot is now stackable!!! (a godsend for storage)
- You have to remove items from the stack to use them in crafting, and they don't restack once separated, but hey, beggars can't be choosers
- Several iconic weapons have been given regular and advanced versions so that they will be functional at higher skill levels
- The DL44, Bowcaster, and E11 Carbineare among them (i'll make sure to get a full list when i can get back in game)
Jeers 
- Condition and accuracy have been removed from weapon builds
- Why? - when we said we wanted something done about the other lines being useless, i have a feeling this isn't what most people meant
- Gonna be a serious pain for inherently low condition weapons (Geo pistol, DXR6b rifle...)
- Removes the option of giving customers a condition boost to make their custom weapons last longer
- Removing accuracy exp. removes ability of the crafter to try and overcome certain inherent flaws in some weapons (Republic Blaster comes to mind)
- There's just something wrong with not being able to experiment the accuracy on a scope...
Thanks again!
Message Edited by sabacc1000 on 04-22-2005 01:24 PM
Message Edited by sabacc1000 on 04-22-2005 01:50 PM
Helios_SOE wrote:
There isn't a whole lot of difference in the components themselves, although the specific values on them will have been tweaked some. In addition to the various number tweaks to bring components in line with final weapon values, we've also made some balance changes - scopes for instance will add accuracy to a weapon but will also slow the weapon down some (depending on how you experiment on it).
Helios_SOE wrote:
Some of the experimentation lines for weapon crafting have also been split - speed and damage are no longer on the same experimentation line for instance. Experimentation in general has been adapted to the new weapon stats, so you may see some new/different experimentation lines from what you are used to.
... durability is entirely a function of resources. The durabilityexperimentation line was removed to make room for more [comparatively] important stat lines.
Helios_SOE wrote:
... scopes add accuracy to your weapon, but take away some speed. Both stats can be experimented on.
Since we no longer have min/mid/max range bonuses (because we no longer have min/mid/max range accuracy differences), we moved to one "general accuracy" value. The "Accuracy" on a weapon should stack with your other accuracymodifiers (from skill mods, etc). You will also notice we got rid of the "mid distance" stat all together. Weapons now only have min/max distances.
Q: Are the new weapons already given to us or are they all in loot/quest schematics?
Some are put in the skilltreesand others will be loot/quest schematics.
Co-opted from ImaTwilek:
- In the WS skill tree:
New weapons available on TC whose schematics are not present in the WS skilltree (presumably the looted ones):
- Pistols: Alliance Disruptor, Flare Pistol, Flechette Pistol
- Carbines: Alliance Needler, Bothan Bola, Geonosian Carbine, Proton Carbine
- Rifles: High Velocity Sniper Rifle, LD1 Rifle, Massassi Ink Rifle, Proton Rifle
- Unarmed: Black Sun Razor Knuckler
- 1H Swords: 'Twilek' Dagger, Junta Mace, Marauder Sword, Acid Sword, Massassi Sword, Janta Knife, Donkuwa Knife
- 2H Swords: Kashyyk Sword, Sith Sword
- Polearms: Kaminoan Great Staff, Massassi Lance, Shock Lance, Kashyyk Bladestick
Q: How are currently crafted uber weapons going to be after the update goes live?
Helios_SOE wrote:
One of the goals of CU is to eliminate "broken" weapons. All weapons will be brought within a reasonable range under the new system, using crafting values as a baseline. If you had an uber weapon before the CU item conversion you will still have an uber weapon afterwards. The person with the highest max damage weapon before the CU should still have the highest max damage weapon afterwards (relatively speaking) - just probably not as far out of line as what is currently possible.
The point values of the DOTs will not be converted on a 1-1 ratio; instead a formula is used to derive a more reasonable value for the end weapon. All weapon valueswill be modified to be within acceptable (from a balance perspective) ranges of the new weapon target numbers. The truth of the matter is that there are some very overpowered DOT weapons in the world, and those weapons will no doubt lose much of their punch. These weapons should, however, still be relativelyexcellent weapons within the new system - just not the overpowered uber weapons they are now.
Q: After the CU has gone live, will the Krayt Tissues and other enhancements that I have in storage be similarly adapted one way or another? Will they be increased to match the increased value (overall) of the advanced weapons that we have seen so far? Will they be toned down to stop 'uber' weapons from popping up again? Will they disappear entirely?
Helios_SOE wrote:
We're looking into that right now with internal testing. We're in the middle of a crafting values balance pass, so it's hard to say how exactly this will end up.
Q: Are the recipes for the current weapons staying the same?
Helios_SOE wrote:
Basic components can go into weapons that call for advanced, but advanced components can not go into weapons that call for basic. One of the big reasons for this change is that the advanced components can seriously throw a low level weapon out of line, which isnon-optimal when trying to balance low-level content. It will also reinforce the fact that low-level smiths can compete in the supply of low-level combatants.
Q: If noob weapons can only be made with basic parts, what happens to the weapons we've made with high end parts? I've made a bunch of nym and krayt enhanced D-18's and DL44's and I enjoy using them.But if they become useless due to a massive damage nerf....
Helios_SOE wrote:
If you had the most powerfulDL44 available on the server before the conversion process, you will still have the most powerful DL44 on the server after conversion. All weapon stats will, however, be brought within a reasonable range of their post-CU target numbers. For balance reasons we can no longer allowoverpowered novice weapons, which wasamajorreason for no longer allowing advanced components in novice level weapons.
Message Edited by sabacc1000 on 04-01-2005 10:15 PM
Message Edited by sabacc1000 on 04-03-2005 04:00 PM
Standardlager wrote:
I GREATLY appreciate this. Due to my crappy computer I highly doubt that I will be able to get on the TC to do much testing. I do intend to TRY though hehehe.
What I am really curious about first off is:
Are weapon components (Power handlers, Barrels etc) stats any different from what they are now?
AND
Has experimentation changed at all? For example does experimentiong in EFFICIENCY actually decrease HAM costs by more than 1 per point used?
Today...
There isn't a whole lot of difference in the components themselves, although the specific values on them will have been tweaked some. In addition to the various number tweaks to bring components in line with final weapon values, we've also made some balance changes - scopes for instance will add accuracy to a weapon but will also slow the weapon down some (depending on how you experiment on it).
Some of the experimentation lines for weapon crafting have also been split - speed and damage are no longer on the same experimentation line for instance. Experimentation in general has been adapted to the new weapon stats, so you may see some new/different experimentation lines from what you are used to.
Standardlager wrote:
Now my next question is are the new weapons already given to us or are they all in loot/quest schematics?
Message Edited by Standardlager on 03-31-2005 09:33 PM
Helios_SOE wrote:
Standardlager wrote:
I GREATLY appreciate this. Due to my crappy computer I highly doubt that I will be able to get on the TC to do much testing. I do intend to TRY though hehehe.
What I am really curious about first off is:
Are weapon components (Power handlers, Barrels etc) stats any different from what they are now?
AND
Has experimentation changed at all? For example does experimentiong in EFFICIENCY actually decrease HAM costs by more than 1 per point used?
Today...
There isn't a whole lot of difference in the components themselves, although the specific values on them will have been tweaked some. In addition to the various number tweaks to bring components in line with final weapon values, we've also made some balance changes - scopes for instance will add accuracy to a weapon but will also slow the weapon down some (depending on how you experiment on it).
Some of the experimentation lines for weapon crafting have also been split - speed and damage are no longer on the same experimentation line for instance. Experimentation in general has been adapted to the new weapon stats, so you may see some new/different experimentation lines from what you are used to.
Message Edited by sabacc1000 on 03-31-2005 10:38 PM
Helios_SOE wrote:
Standardlager wrote:
Now my next question is are the new weapons already given to us or are they all in loot/quest schematics?
Message Edited by Standardlager on 03-31-2005 09:33 PM
Yes.
Standardlager wrote:
Now thats just MEAN!
But If yer still lurking around.............
Would a Enhanced weapon made NOW be better after it is "scaled down" or would it be better to make it post CU patch?
dirlook wrote:
Question: How are currently crafted uber weapons going to be after the update goes live?
One of the goals of CU is to eliminate "broken" weapons. All weapons will be brought within a reasonable range under the new system, using crafting values as a baseline. If you had an uber weapon before the CU item conversion you will still have an uber weapon afterwards. The person with the highest max damage weapon before the CU should still have the highest max damage weapon afterwards (relatively speaking) - just probably not as far out of line as what is currently possible.
How will current in game weapons work, will they change, will the continue to work as they do now?
I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "work"?
Standardlager wrote:
Now thats just MEAN!
But If yer still lurking around.............
Would a Enhanced weapon made NOW be better after it is "scaled down" or would it be better to make it post CU patch?
If I told you, wouldn't that be cheating?
