Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Exact description of how FoW is working on TC
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1) Character must be incapacitated - Execute /forceOfWill - Roll d100
- a) if the roll is less than 5, automatic failure
- b) if the roll is greater than the character's meditation skill mod, failure
- c) if roll less than or = character's meditation skill mod, success
note: standard meditation skill mod for a TKA with /forceOfWill is 75
2) If the character fails the skill roll, he/she will remain incapacitated per normal rules and will be unable to use the command for the duration of that incapacitation If the character succeeds, the roll delta (skill mod - original d100 roll) is passed to the function where the following occurs:
a) if delta is less than 10, the character will sustain 100 wounds to each pool and 100 battle fatigue
b) if delta greater than or = 10 & less than 40, temporary reductions of 200pts to all pools will be applied (5min) and 100 battle fatigue
c) if delta greater than or = 40 & less than 70, temporary reductions of 100pts to all pools will be applied (5min)
d) if delta greater than or = 70, no negative effects are applied to the character
e) an effect similar to the zabrak innate "equalize" is applied to the character
f) a 1 hour reuse timer is applied
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Note that the timer resets upon death.
Some observations:
The stated standard med score of 75 is almost certainly not counting the master box. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check this myself, but I believe the med score for a TKA master is 100, not 75. This means that at TKM, your chance of success is 95% versus a 70% chance at master med. Very nice bump for the master box.
The breakdown for the probability of each outcome at TKA master level would be as follows:
Failure = 5% (Happens with the D100 roll is between 0 and 5)
Success (a) = 10% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 91 and 100)
Success (b) = 30% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 61 and 90)
Success (c) = 30% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 31 and 60)
Success (d) = 25% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 6 and 30)
So you'd have a 1 in 4 chance of the skill working properly with no side effects.
I'd like to get a discussion going on the probability of each outcome occurring, and the penalty for partial success. It occurs to me that the 900 wounds you'll get 1 in 10 times you use the skill is a bit harsh. I'm not a fan of the battle fatigue either.
I'd also like everyone's take on the 60 minute timer. My first reaction is to say that 60 minutes is too long for a skill that's clearly less effective than the Zabrak's innate ability. After all, it's a 4th tier skill of an elite professions. It should be an excellent skill, not a striped down version of a skill you can get for free by picking the right species. If they changed the timer to 15-20 minutes, what would the effect be? Would it be unbalancing? What situations would it be too powerful in? How would it influence PvP, PvE?
Note that it's only on TC so far, so we still have time to give input. So in summary:
1) What do you guys think about the probability for each level of success? Is it balanced? Weigh the power with the problems.
2) What do you think about the types of penalties? Is a HAM penalty the best thing to do? What about the 5 minutes; too short/ too long? Is battle fatigue (guaranteed downtime) appropriate? is a 1 in 10 chance of getting 900 wounds an acceptable risk? Do you think these penalties are a good way to represent the lingering effects of a martial arts master using extreme concentration to pull themselves out of unconsciousness?
3) In your opinion, Is a 60 minute timer appropriate? Why or why not? In what situations (if any) would a reduced timer lead to the skill being overpowered?
You need to find out if the 100 wounds applied to each pool is applied to just the health, action, and mind stats, or all nine of the stats.
i.e. is it like a non-cloned death or is it more like battle damage (applied to all stats).
First let me say this: If this change stays as is...I promise you, and you can quote me, "This will become another useless skill that no one will choose to use..why?
1) I f I get incapped and stay incapped for 45 seconds and get up with no wounds and WAY less battle fatigue than if FoW worked, then what is my motivation to use it in the first place?
I would rather stay incapped for a whole minute than to take such a huge risk in getting wounds and 100 Battle fatigue.
Once again this is typical dev tactic...give us a bone and then punish us so badly for using it that quite frankly, we wont, ever!
2) There should be no Battle Fatigue whatsoever other than that sustained from BATTLE!
3) A ONE HOUR TIMER?!?!?! Ok step away from the crack pipe! Do you how many time I get incapped in one hour of hard PvP or mission play against hard mobs?! This should be 15 minute timer at the very MOST!
I f you want this to be another useless skill like Unarmed combo2 or how the KD was..then by al means implement this bunk! The risk to use this skill as is above far outways ANY and I mean ANY benefit it may have!
I think that I like the direction they're taking this skill in. Instead of a desperation move that could end up getting us killed anyway, it's a powerful move that will probably help us escape (or turn the tide of battle), especially if it wasjust one HAM bar that was being hit hardest.
So, seeing how it gives us a real opportunity to escape death, I think the heavier consequences are reasonable. That said, I think that the one hour timer is redundant. A reluctance to use the skill is already built into it, considering the crapshoot involved and the guaranteed downtime of the battle fatigue. No sense in artificially forcing its rarity unless people were using it willy nilly, which I really wouldn't expect.
Ok you want to bring up "Only use it to escape death" thing.....CONSIDER THIS:
If I end up on a hard planet...Dath, Yavin and so on...and i hunt these exclusivley...I ALWAYS clone first.....Now that said....If I do clone guess what? If I die I get resurected with less wonds and Battle Fatigue than if I took the stupid chance of using this skill! You cant deny it or refute it...all you would suffer is the long haul back to where you where before you died.....I SEE NO BENEFIT AT ALL WITH THIS MOD TO FoW!
I would rather die and spend less time in downtime than if I took the overwhelming less than favorable chance of using this skill....think about it.
I clone.....go out and die...resurect with 10-15 wounds and 8 Battle Fatigue.....Or use force of will, get 100-200 wounds to HAM and get up with 100 BF!!!! Pretty freaking self-explainatory to me!
In my view this choice, is no choice at all...I will NOT use it.....
If you want to make FoW Work and have an incintive to use it....give it a 50% Flat success rate with 50 wounds and no Battle Fatigue no matter if it is successful or not what with a 30 minute timer...its that simple....not complicated just realistic.
As a matter of fact it is not crazy talk...if they implement the death and decay I can say that no..I still wont use this skill....thats not reactionary, that is a fact...I will not be manioulated into using a skill I think is completely ridiculous...
We are already being manipulated into doing other professions with the stupid holocrons to make up for the complete lack of CONTENT in this game. I will not be manipulated into this either like a mouse in a maze.
If this skill stands as is and the D&D thing goes live....well let me just say WoW.
The more stuff they implement, the less fun this game becomes, the more hopeless i feel when facing the almost garanteed event of incapp and death.
Oh and you can kiss PvP goodbye if this D&D thing happens...i will not PvP at the risk of lossing my equipment with some professions being so over-powered as they are and with this stupid 5m limitation on VKs.
Cibila
I think there's something that people aren't considering when talking about FoW and upcoming changes.
Death actually is starting to mean something. Decay is working on TC. This tells me right now that the whole concept of 'clone and never worry about dying' is going to be out the window as well as insurance following suit in being fixed. People will have to insure their items. No longer will people just go out to advanced planets, clone, and never worry about the penalties of death...it will mean something. Too long have people (even myself) lived off the comfort of just 'let's get slain because it's a free trip back and we don't have to walk 5k'. We should all have seen that change coming above all others.
And before people start yelling about how unfair it is, or how they're going to quit, realize that every other MMO* out there has the same thing, some penalty of dying without "insuring" your belongings. Anyone who thinks WoW won't have something similar, or that FFXI won't have something similar...well you're seriously deluding yourself. Hell, in MU*, there was no insurance in ROM, you had to hike back to your corpse and get your stuff, and it could be looted by anyone. When you get used to 10 years of that, like I did, you tend to look at "insuring" your items as a godsend. In PVP, you'd get killed, all your stuff would get looted, and you started from ground zero, only your cash meaning something. Banks now will mean something. Cloning terminals and insurance stations will mean something. And I welcome it all, because the alternative is far worse for most people, hehe...
Xenous, I totally see what you mean by benefit and balance. My personal opinion, and one that I see some members of this board sharing, is that the current drawbacks are too harsh for the proposed benefit, particulary for a 4th tier skill.
I'm reluctant to suggest that the skill be changed to a 40-50% chance of success without strong support from the board. Do you not like the 95% success rate, or is it that you're trying to avoid the wounds and BF? Personally, I don't think that BF has any place in this skill, and if people agree I'll happily recommend that it be taken out.
If we can get them to reduce the penalties, I would think that most people would prefer the higher success percentage. Remember that there's only a 10% chance of getting those 300 wounds. If you got 100 wounds every time you used it, successful or not, you'd end up with more down time in the long run.
And guys, can we try to reserve the 1 star ratings for flamers and trolls? At least on posts where we're trying to get everyone's input for the devs, I think it's particularly important that everyone gets heard. And unless people reset their preferences, they won't even see 1 star posts. Just a request.
Recap on feedback so far.
- In general, penalties seem too harsh. As a 4th tier skill, it should be highly beneficial. Some people feel they'd rather sit through an incap or take the DB rather than run the risk of all those wounds and BF
- Some positive feedback on the tiered approach to success. Having different possible outcomes besides just success and failure
- Since there is the possibility of such a harsh penalty, how about adding the possibility of an amazing success, granting full HAM bars as opposed to equalized bars. Perhaps at a 5% chance
- General positivity on the change to balancing HAM instead of killing it... go figure
- 1 hour timer is too long
Keep it commin' guys.
1. I like the current distribution of risk vs. reward. You have a 50% chance to succeed without incurring much penalty, 30% chance to get a minor penalty, 10% chance of some inconvenience, 5% chance of failure (i.e., death).
2. Ifeel that the timers for outcomes (b) and (c) are just right. Any shorter and it becomes difficult to balance the reuse timer. Any longer, and the "downer" might begin to outweigh the benefit.
3. 60 minute reuse is too long, given the built-in risks/downers. If this skill was 100% success with 100% HAM restoration, then 60 minutes would be appropriate. As is, 60 minutes is overkill, given the inherent risk of using the skill. I feel 5min. (or whatever the burst run timer is) would be more appropriate reuse.
As a general comment, I flat-out disagree with those that claim they wouldn't use this skill. This skill is meant to be used in life/death outcome (i.e., letting the incap timer run isn't an option because you'd be dead). In this regard, the skill is perfect. Death currently has no meaning (I currently usedeath for a quick return trip to get more missions), but in future, this won't be such as attractive option.
I believe FoW, as laid-out is a very attractive skill with a good niche. Getting that reuse timer down to a reasonable number would be my top priority.
If I die I get resurected with less wonds and Battle Fatigue than if I took the stupid chance of using this skill! You cant deny it or refute it...all you would suffer is the long haul back to where you where before you died.....I SEE NO BENEFIT AT ALL WITH THIS MOD TO FoW!
Death has consequences with upcoming changes on TestCenter. Death avoidance is preferrable.
Just thinking some on the pool penalties. I don't have meditate as yet (0-4-4-4 TKA), so I'm not sure how quickly wound healing works. If meditate works quickly, then 100 wounds per pool might be preferrable to a five minute reduction of 100 or 200 points per pool...