CUEmu - Thread Posts

Lieshi

Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:50 pm

(*WARNING*: LONG POST!)

For ease of reading, I've grouped the following questions by category with appropriate headings:

1. MELEE DEFENSE / RANGED DEFENSE

a. What is the cap on these mods, and on the other mods listed in the other categories below?

b. Please confirm these mods are used in determining the chance for an attack to miss you entirely before applying other mods for Dodge / Block / etc., and play no role in reducing damage from a successful hit (I believe that should be governed by your Toughness mod).

2. COMPARING MELEE / RANGED DEFENSE AGAINST DODGE / BLOCK

Comparing the effects of the Melee / Ranged Defense Mods and Dodge / Block Mods, does every single additional point of improvement in any of those mods give you the same same additional chance for the attack to miss you entirely?

***Or are they assigned different "weights"?***

In other words, if I have a +30 Dodge Mod and a +30 Melee Defense Mod to start with, and I can choose between using one of two armor attachments--one of which grants a +1 in Dodge and the other a +1 in Melee Defense--do both attachments increase the chance for that character to avoid a melee attack completely by the *same* amount? Or, say, does every additional point of Melee Defense have the same effect as two points of Dodge?

3. DODGE AND BLOCK

a. Same as Question #2 above, but comparing Dodge against Block:

Does each point of improvement in each mod grant exactly the same additional chance to avoid an attack (assume identical starting values for the two mods)?

b. If a player has both Dodge and Block mods, are BOTH available against an incoming attack, or only the one of the two with the higher rating?

I *THINK* it works like this:

A character with Melee Defense, Dodge and Block Mods is attacked with a melee attack. First the system rolls against the Melee Defense Mod; if the character fails that check, the system moves down the list to the next defensive mod. So in this example, if the check against Dodge also fails, it would then move on to Block.

---> Is this right?

c. Can every kind of attack be Dodged or Blocked?

(For example, can a ranged attack be blocked? Can CM disease / poison attacks be Dodged or Blocked?)

d. Does a character without any Dodge or Block mods have any chance to Dodge or Block by default?

e. Is there any difference in the way that Dodge and Block work?

f. Have their ever been any posts by SOE reps explaining in detail how defensive mods work?

4. COUNTERATTACK

a. Could someone confirm that a successful Counterattack *doesn't* cause the attack to miss; rather it simply delivers an "unblockable" counterattack?

b. If the Counterattack is "unblockable", is it also undodgeable?

c. Is the damage inflicted by a successful Counterattack determined in the same way as damage for a successful default attack (i.e., an attack made without using an attack skill), or is there a multiplier applied to damage from a Counterattack?

5. DEFENSIVE ACUITY

TKA's have a defensive mod called Defensive Acuity that supposedly "improves the chances for a successful Dodge, Block or Counterattack."

Interesting since I don't believe the TKA tree grants any mods in these 3 categories. (Invitation to cross train?)

a. Is the Defensive Acuity mod only effective if you already have Block and/or Dodge/Counterattack mods from other professions (or clothing/armor attachments), or does a TKA even without those mods have a chance to Dodge, etc. that is increased by virtue of the Defensive Acuity mod?

b. What additional bonus does each point of Defensive Acuity grant to the three above-mentioned defensive mods?

I.e., is each additional point of Defensive Acuity equal to an additional point in all three categories, or only a fraction of a point?

6. COMBAT EQUILIBRIUM

In addition to granting a chance to auto recover from a forced Posture Change, does this mod also operate in the same way with respect to Knockdowns?

__________________

That's it! Look forward to responses to all of the above.

Lieshi

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:38 pm

#2

Bump.

Still looking for some answers.

Utess

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:57 pm

#3

1)

A. Ranged and Melee defense are capped at +125

B. They determine how likely an attack is to miss you. They are "Anti-Accuracy". The game compares your Ranged/Melee defense to your attackers Accuracy/Range/to-hit-bonus mods to determine the chance an attack will hit you, then rolls to see if it misses or not. This all happens before Dodge/etc.

2)

I have no clue as to the exact formulas that determine how much each point grants you. Both are very important. Ranged/Melee tends to be desired slightly more though simply because it is not weapon specific.

3)

Dodge/Block/Counter-attack only work when a weapon is equipped associated with the profession that gets that mod. So, for example, only fencers and pistoleers get dodge mods, so you will only dodge if you have a1-handed swordor pistol weapon equipped. To advance answer a further question, if you have dodge mods from both fencer and pistoleer, both those mods will be in full effect with either weapon type equiped.

For the rest of #3's questions. You are correct in part how it works. First it checks to see if an attack misses you or not with Melee/Ranged defense. Then if it does "hit" you, it then rolls for Dodge/etc if you have it. If it gets past that, then you start getting into armor and such.

You can dodge/block/etc any kind of attack, however, the way bleeds/poisons/diseases/etc work is they are "state" attacks, which means they are ignored by dodge and such. That means, for bleed shots, for example, you could dodge the physical shot, but you still might get the bleed.

Depending on the weapon you have equiped, you always have a chance to dodge/block/etc, it is just it is an extremely low chance. As for how dodge and block work, I believe their technical effects are the same(ie you take no damage) they just do them in slightly different ways.

4)

I am unsure totaly how counter attack functions as I've never been in a profession that uses them hon. I do believe you are correct though in that counter attack, you take the damage and then counter with an attack of your own. By how much damage you counter with and if it can be avoided though, I have no clue.

5)

Defensive accuity is for all practical purposes broken. If it does anything, it does very little. It is also weapon independant so having +dodge, etc does not help it in any way. If it was working, what it would do would be to give us a random chance of doing any of those three defensive maneuvers. But how much of a chance it is supposed to give, we have no idea because that mod has always been broken so that it either does nothing, or practically nothing.

6)

Yes it does, however there is a delay associated with knockdown so it is not instant. This also, unfortunately, can cause a bug to sometimes occur, where you try to stand up when incapped, only since one of your pools is negative, you instantly incap again, resulting in a quick auto 3 incap death. This is very rare when it happens though, but I've had it happen once to myself and know others it has happened to as well.

Hope that helps

________________________________

'Tess
- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor

Lieshi

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:00 pm

#4

Dear Utess,

Thanks for your reply.

Ontwo significant points, I think you are probably wrong:

1. The first:whether dodge, block, etc. are weapon dependent.

All of the skills that are dependent on having a specific weapon equipped are tagged that way, e.g. unarmed toughness (need to be unarmed or equipped with VK for this mod to work) vs. 1 hand toughness (need to be equipped with a fencer type weapon for this mod to work). You are the first person I have ever heard suggest that Dodge only activates if you are carrying a pistol / fencer weapon.

2. The second: I *DON'T* think Defensive Acuity is broken. I think TKA's are confused about it because they don't get Dodge, Block or Counterattack.

According to the description, it does NOT function the way you described. You think it should grant a chance to randomly dodge, counterattack, block. But the description indicates that it ENHANCES your PRE-EXISTING chance to Dodge, Block or Counterattack. If you have no mods, then it is applying a multiplier to one or zero which equals basically nothing. If I am right, then it will only be noticed by those people who have picked up the above 3 defense modsin some other way.

_____________

I look forward to some clarification onthe abovepoints, and answers to my original questions. It is quite important when deciding how to round out a combat character after achieving Master in 2 classes (for me, Master TKA and Master Carbineer). I have enough points left over to pick up some more combat training, and answers to questions like those above are critical.

Ratt

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:11 pm

#5

No, he's correct.

Dodge bonuseswill not work unless you have the appropriate weapon equipped. I'm unsure if they stack though.

I think that when a pistol is equipped you will use 80 dodge, when a 1-hand sword is equipped you will use 105 dodge.

antares_Kauri

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:37 pm

#6

Yes, Pikemen/Riflemen block (bugged combat log shows it as counterattack in user's log, others see block), Swordsmen/Carbineers counterattack, Fencers/Pistoleers dodge. A player with +125 dodge and +125 block would only block using a rifle or pike and only dodge using 1-H or a pistol. These values do combine. That is, if you have +70 from pikeman and +55 from rifleman, you will have +125 block available when using these weapon types.

CMs' attacks cannot currently be defended against except through poison/disease resistance. They never miss, their attacks can only be resisted. All other attacks can be evaded through melee/ranged defenses or the secondary lines (b/c/d).

Currently, the effect of counterattack and dodge is the exact same. Counterattack does not currently offer a free attack, it simply evades 100% of the incoming damage for that hit that is successfully dodged/countered. Block, on the other hand only evades 50% of the incoming damage. This has been confirmed by developers to correspondents that block is working as intended.

I don't think anyone really knows the forumlas for these secondary defenses. But with +125 block even, it is rarely seen outside of Center of Being. The same can be said for counterattack and dodge, however, upon use of CoB, the rate is increased dramatically.

Melee/ranged defenses are weighed against the attackers accuracy mods and to-hit bonuses with each attack. "Anti-accuracy" as stated before. After this assessment, then the chance to block/counterattack/dodge is made, these are second-chance defenses.

antares

master pikeman

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-08-2004 12:39 AM

|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"

KnapweedD

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:59 pm

#7

antares_Kauri quoth:

Currently, the effect of counterattack and dodge is the exact same. Counterattack does not currently offer a free attack, it simply evades 100% of the incoming damage for that hit that is successfully dodged/countered. Block, on the other hand only evades 50% of the incoming damage. This has been confirmed by developers to correspondents that block is working as intended.

Yep, I've one-shotted many low level NPCs, who have 'Blocked' my shot.

Lieshi

Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:51 am

#8

It seems things may be a bit more complicated than the above posters mention.

Yes, I have confirmed that my Master TKA / Master Carbineer doesn't show any successful Counterattacks in the combat log when using a Vibroknuckler. If we could trust the combat log, this should confirm that Counterattack isn't being used when he is equipped with a Vibroknuckler.

However...

I am now working on obtaining Fencer 4 4 4 0 w/ the same guy, Master TKA / Master Carbineer. While working on the 1 Hand Melee Tree, I noticed the following ***VERY INTERESTING*** phenomenon: my guy would occasionally show the Dodge animation, despite NOT having the Dodge skill (and no tapes, etc. granting a bonus to it)! The Dodge Skill modis only obtained upon reaching Novice Fencer (or Pistoleer), and is NOT a skill mod possessed by a mere 1 Hand WeaponBrawler. The combat log, however, only showed the attack as missing me -- but the Dodge is very apparent from its animation, andeach attack triggering the Dodge animation WAS showed in the combat log as missing.

We know that SWG combat logs are not reliable: as an example, I understand the combat logs of Pikemen still show them as using Counterattacks when in fact they are Blocking (and persons other than the Pikeman in question see the Pikeman as correctly performing a Block rather than Counterattack in their logs.)

Keep in mind as regards the above the TKA skill, Defensive Acuity.

Mytheory is that the TKA skill Defensive Acuity IS granting a Dodge Mod, but that one of the following is true: (1) the Dodge skill may only work when a1 Hand Meleeor pistol weaponis equipped regardless of whether you havge attained an elite profession granting the Dodge skill, or (2) Dodge skill always functions regardless of equipped weapon but the combat log is inaccurate. I think theory (1) is more likely.

This theory would be shattered if 1 Hand Meleefolks without the Defensive Acuity mod from the TKA tree sometimes see the Dodge animation even before reaching the rank of Novice Fencer (same would apply for Marksmen using a pistol before achieving Novice Pistoleer); if they do, there is still the question as to WHY they do -- something isn't right.

Comments?

antares_Kauri

Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:58 am

#9

One comment: You will also do the dodge animation as a fresh novice marksman right out of the box...

antares

master pikeman

|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"

Ratt

Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:54 am

#10

Yes I've seen that too as a novice marksman - but only when a pistol is equipped.

Teras Kasi Archive

Thread: Tough Questions Regarding Defensive Mods