Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKA's Hidden Nerf from the 12/15 patch
It was glossed over.. I'm suprised more people haven't caught it yet.. Possibly because most people don't duel other melee classes.
Damage Mitigation
Lets say you have a typical pair of VKs.. 45-175 damage after the slice. In the scheme of things this is a pitiful weapon.. Considering ANY other elite class weapon is doing 4 times the damage.
With damage mitigation you're actually the weapon is
(175 - 45) = 130
130 *.60 = 78
175 - 78 = 98
Thus you actually have a pair of 45-98VK.
So what does that mean for us?
Well in a testmy friend who was a master swordsman put on 70% composite armor and did a /peace on me.I proceeded to hit him. With the 75% PVP reduction,50% armor 1 and 70% kinetic reduction I was unable to outdamage his buffed regen rates.
Basically we're fighting with 1 of 2 weapons. A sub-100 damage weapon with stats similliar to a CDEF pistol that is armor 1. Or our barefists which we have no idea what the stats are and how mitigate effects them.
Think everyone else is as bad off? Do the math on a handful of weapons and check it out.
1) I promise you you'll find no other typical Master weapon that is sub 100 damage
2) I promise you you'll find plenty of typical Master weapons doing more damage than our original VK's.
Heavy! Can we get some word from the devs on what our fists are? As far as we know they could be
110-110 or something like that. We need to know!
i can help in this.
at master a teras kasi barefisted has a damage of 385-415
at least thats what ive seen in the combat spam chanel. a new novice does around 220-250.
now the damage on a set of VKs, it seems the dmg is +minimum VK dmgto unarmed minimum dmg to +VK max dmg to +unarmed max dmg.
so, 45-175 VKs seems to yeild a 45-175 dmg boost, plus the added benefit of AP1, which is a little more dmg per point of resist not covered in armor.
ex = 45-175 dmg VK = TKM dmg per hit of 430-690.
if a target has no armor but a kinetic resist of 25%(mob), you basicaly bypass that armor and do roughly 75 pts more dmg to that target.
new damage is 515-765.
in pvp, simply factor in armor or not, and the 75% damage reduction. if they are wearing armor, and are buffed, i doubt you will hit them very hard. thats what armor and buffs are for!
however if they are not wearing armor... even after the 75% dmg reduction, they will surely die. but with mitigation, if its melee, its better to just go unarmed without the Vibros, your dmg is barely impacted as with vibros it can sometimes be lower :/
Have fun using your combos when they drop a bleed on you that is completely uneffected by Mitigation and the PVP -75% reduction and any armor you might be wearing.
Besides the fact that with Mitigation in effect specials seem to do more damage to yourself then a commonly armored individual.
NOTE!!
I'm not saying that if you knock someone down and they don't have armor on or buffs you won't be able to kill them. What I'm saying is in a real PVP setting where someone will be wearing decent armor and buffed there is NO WAY for us to kill them now. Literally NO WAY. I mean you can beat on them for 5 minutes and they won't die. Our only win now is Knockdown.. Which everyone is complaining about and will certainly be nerfed in the near future.
Mitigation is a joke.
The ranged seems to have some affect, but the melee is useless.
They upped the amount of damage NPCs and creatures do and give us mitigation. Mit 3 does no good whatsoever in PvE because animals have a damage range like 100-110, 300-312, so mitigation against animals means about a 1-2% decrease in damage. We also have no way of telling if it helps against NPCs since we cannot see what damage they do to begin with.
Ranged seems to be the same way except for what the original poster said in that ranged classes can use multiple weapons to lessen the affect of mitigation.
All-in-all I see mitigation as a pacifier for the new changes in the amount of damage animals and NPCs do in PvE now.
BTW, I had a NPC single shot incap me three times in a row yesterday. He would go aggro from 30m away, giving me no time to even get off one hit, and one shot me. I don't think a group of any less than 15 people could have taken him because he would have just one shot everyone until they are all incapped.
Wolfe- wrote:
Mitigation is a joke.
The ranged seems to have some affect, but the melee is useless.
They upped the amount of damage NPCs and creatures do and give us mitigation. Mit 3 does no good whatsoever in PvE because animals have a damage range like 100-110, 300-312, so mitigation against animals means about a 1-2% decrease in damage. We also have no way of telling if it helps against NPCs since we cannot see what damage they do to begin with.
Just to let you know, the Devs have said that for all but the most high-end creatures, mitigation will have very little effect in PvE. They have changed the damage of level 50+ mobs to have a much broader range of damage, which will be more effected by mitigation.
Lower level MoBs and NPCs will not really be effected by mitigation. As you pointed out, their range of damage is very tight.
Hmm, I killed several people in PvP last night.. at least one fencer.If it is impossible to kill in PvP now then I must be doing something wrong. Still doing 350+ per headhit1 to standing opponents over here. headhit1 is averaging a whole 20 points less damage against PCs with Melee Mit 3. Oh, the humanity.
Ranged defense is working fine for me, too.
you guys think you got it bad.....the only half way decent pikeman weapon that does not have -54/-54/-54 for accuracy modifiers is 30-270 damage at 6.0 speed. Cry for the pikeman.
Our Long Vibro Axe with 130-500 Damage at 4.4 speed is about equal in PvP to a TKAs average vibro knuckler. You guys do AS much or more damage to us with your hit 3 than we do to you with ours. Cry some more for the pikeman.
Now those same weapons...will be ...
30-120damage at 6.0 speed or our LVA will be 130-248 at 4.4....
that SOUNDS better than yours, but keep in mind that the axe with 130-500 does no more damage to you than your unmittigated knuckler does to us.....and its HAM is 90/70/30 and it's accuracy is -54/-54/-54....
Pikeman have once again taken it up the ass....and we don't have +56 toughness or +250 damage to help us out, like some other proffesions i know.
Also, the guy had 70% kinetic defense and light armour.......what do you expect?
I just thought I would chime in:
1. on the vk's - to be honest the only thing from what I read in the past they are used for at master(or really higher lvls) is when fighting something with armor. Also to be honest, i know novices use these for speed(a life saver), but how many masters activly use em.I mean our speed is fast enough at master, unarmed3 does 2k plus dmg(btw ITHINK i got 1k-1.5k more hits with vk's when using ua3), but ua3+vk's=death to ham and ifyou are in pvp with mult enamiesor multiple agros around, you dont want to fininish the fight with half or less of your ham bars just to save a few seconds.personaly even when fighting a rancor(light armor or medium?) with the right technique u can solo em with no buffs and no vk's
again, everyone has their reasons(i hate armor, but thats just me, I know its very good for you but I wont wear it)
thats just me, i used vk's about 3 times at master, first when I got master(i whooped the guy but I was near dead) and a few other times just testing a few, but other then that bare hands. what im getting at is, let em nerf it all but the speed for novices and I could care less what happens with em
on a side note, there has been talk about mixing proffs before. I havent been on the boards in a bit and im sure others have said this, but personal I think we are strong enough not to really need to mix(it can only help, I just like doing other stuff), but if you are being kited you might want to invest in rager, you get faster burst and faster terrain which can make a difference. Some mix with doc for selfbuffs mabey melees need to go ranger(and yea it is a lot of skill points but if it helps). I guess I just dont see a whole lot of talk about mixing proffs like this, just more of getting us something special to stop kiting, when mabey its just a good mix is what you need. and of course pick your fights, if snipers can get you from far away there is nothing wrong with hitting while they run through the starport halls(im not talking about load killing, i mean as they come after you and you go in, i rarely fail. All I do is pass em hitting kd2 and its over, of course if a sniper is 30m away from me, i run away or run at him depending on my mood.
well, i reread the post and wanted to add something because im just bored still. as I said with taking on a rancor(btw im not trying to show off, I have read here many times of people soloing em, but im just getting at right ways and wrong ways i guess). personally I am bad a pvp for the main reason is I have such a fun time with it I dont take time to think for a sec. one example was I kd's someone with 3k+ health and action. he had 700 some odd mind(said he had a 80% kinetic helmit afterwords, but I dont think it would of mattered much) So what did I do? I UA3 him non stop, killing my ham, and he got a couple of shots off now and again(i dont know if it was standing using /stand then falling again or what but every few secs he shot). I lost and he was kd, of course then I clicked on his mind and saw how low it was and kicked myself because mind hit is right under ua3, just had to hit shift. many of you will wonder why whats the point of this, but there are some people at a point who are like me(dont even get me started about me having 30 notice before a fight vs a combat medic while he loaded and I was a doc with cure posion in my toolbar and I didnt use it). if you have the time, check their stats and what not, if they are loading its not wrong. Pick your fights, and trick em if you can(someone wanted to go into the starport and was hovering around, I had to go somwhere and stood at the term"buying a ticket" as they slowly approched. what a suprise they got). we are strong, need more then good hits.
and now my bolles just spawned so adios and thanks for putting up with me
The change is rather annoying at times... as an example I fought another TKA the other night, he was in full kinetic composite.
I was in full composite also, with -33% mind powerups on my VK's, AND I had full musician buffs (900focus/1800 willpower before armor), plus powerboost for 1500 mind ham.
After I knocked him down and dizzied him.. it took almost my ENTIRE mind bar of spamming Head Hit to kill him, which was my only choice because his mind was under 1k, the rest of his stats buffed 3k+.
At one point he knocked me down also, and spent time spamming specials on me, I eventually got up and was pretty much full HAMs afterwards, especially when I popped a Vercupti for another 400ish Willpower. He couldn't beat my mind regen.. while I wearing full composite.
However he was the only one that gave me real trouble. But its still an annoying fight, for both of us. There's no way after knocking someone down and keeping them there, that hitting them like 50 times in the head.. at Master TKA.. with 180 max damage VK's.. and they're still going?
Rennyn is detailing the problem exactly. Again I say.. If you don't knock the person down it's virtually impossible to kill someone who's standing, in decent armor and has buffs.
Rennyn shows a case where while a person was laying down he repeatedly had to head hit to the point where he was almost DEAD before the fight ended.
Not to mention if you're not master yet. PVPing as a middle tier TKA has to be virtually pointless at this time. I doubt you could do enough damage to someone to outdamage their regens.