Teras Kasi Archive

Holocron started the open discussions on balancing and listed his 5 premises, but they all boildown to one thing, a white con should be an even match, whether grouped or solo.

Think about that for a second. We are the melee class. We all know that if we engage a mob, we get 100% of the aggro, regardless of how much damage pets, ranged and everyone else is going combined. We, the tanks get all the aggro.

Now, if we don't stand a chance of standing toe-to -toe with a red con mob solo, what magical, fairytale ability makes Holocron think that in a group of 3 (or 20 for that matter)all of a sudden a TKA will be able to stand up to a red con mob?

We all know it. Any one with any senseknows it.At some point, the dev team knew it.We've spent months and 1000's of post trying to make the current dev team and their leadership understand it. WE CANNOT TANK MOBS IN ANY GROUP THAT WE CANNOT TANK SOLO! Why is that so hard for them to understand?

The reason that TKA's have the ability to stand up to red con mobs is because of this! Someone figured it out long ago. Iftanks can't tank the higher level mobs, they have no use in the game! They buffed up mobs HAM's so it would be impractical for us to do it. Soloing a red con mob is NOT the best way for a TKA to get exp. TANKING a red con mob so your group can kill it 3-4 (10, 20) times faster than you can solo IS the best way to get exp.

But in order to tank that red con, we have to be able to stand toe-to-toe with it for several minutes. Hence the ability to KD and dizzy and tank a mob that can hit a TKA for 200-300 dmg for several minutes while the pets and ranged kill the mob.

If not for this ability to survive more than 15 seconds in front of a red con mob, the TKA would be worthless to a group! Even surrounded by 19 medics, a TKA could not last 30 seconds in frontof a red con mob without these abilities. 3-4 200-300 dmg hits to mind and the tank is gone.

Currently a group with pets and ranged classes can take mobs much higher than their level using the pets to tank. But add a TKA to that group and what happens? Nothing if the TKA can't tank as good as the pets can. If he even tried to attack, he's dead unless it's a mob he can stand upto solo.

Now, because a TKA can tank red mobs and with time (lots of time) and perfect conditions and a bit of luck, he can solo those same mobs, that does not mean it's in his best intrests to do so. Nor does it mean he is overpowered. It means he can tank red con mobs so he can be an asset to a group.

If Holocron does what his premises say he wants to do, TKA's will no longer be able to tank anything that he can't tank solo, and thus will be useless to any group that wants to take mobs higher than a TKA can tank.

We know in PvP and PvE we are gimped against ranged mobs.We don't like it, we want a chance to compete against ranged, but that is not likely to happen. Our trade off for being sitting ducks to ranged is our ability to stand toe-to-toe with mobs that ranged can't afford to get close to. Now your talking about taking that away and making the TKA only able to stand up against white con mobs?

Your dooming this game. If this happens, in a matter of weeks you will have nothing but ranged CH's playing SWG. Why would anyone want a tank that can't tank even con mobs to the group when they can have pets that can take red con mobs to the group?

Oh, and along those lines. I am a TKA/CH. Currently I can solo yellow con mobs fairly easy. With my pets out, the mobcons blue and it's slightly easier to solo them.

But anymob I can't solo, I can'tkill withmy pets either unless I stand back and let the pets do all the killing. Then I get zilch for exp (except a few hundred CH exp). If I attack, I get the aggro, I die and maybe my pets will finish the mob off, or maybe they will run, or maybe they will go poof, who knows. But my pets are useless to me if I can't stand in there myself.

Someone knew this. Someone, somewhere figured this out. That is why TKA's have the abilities to stand toe-to-toe with higher con mobs. Now, Holocron and this dev team have forgotten this and are taking away our abilities to stand toe-to-toe with the higher con mobs and they are goign to kill the TKA.

I tested my stance a bit tonight. With vk's means I fight with them on, but take them off for KD, Dizzy or any other move.

Senerio one - Nym's Surveyor. yellow con witout pets. blue con with 2 CL17pets. When fought with pets, i keep 100% aggo with or without vk's. If I don't constantly keep mob knocked down and dizzied, I get incap. Mob hits for 130's-230's. Even with a medic, 4-5 hits to mind and I'm incap'ed so I have to keep him from hitting me. I get 2200 exp and the fight lasts 1 minute 50 seconds with pets and vk's, over 2 minutes 30 seconds with out pets and over 3 minutes 30 seconds without vk's.

If TKA is made to have a 50/50 chance of winning against a white con mob, I will not beable to fight anything higher than a white con mob (conned solo) no matter who is in the group. I will not ba able to do damage as that will bring immediate aggro and I will die.

Senerio two. Nym's Elite guards. Red con without pets. yellow con with 2 CL17 pets. When foughtwith pets, I keep 100% of aggro, even if I let pets almost die before attacking. Once I attack, bang I have aggro. This fight I win 50-75% of the time with pets and vk's. I lose 50-75% of the time without pets and vk's. mob hits for 200-450's,2-3 hits to mind and I'm incap'ed. No way to survive this mob even with a group of 20 unless they can kill it in 15-20 seconds or I can KD and dizzy.I get 4400 expand the fight last over 4 minutes with pets and vk's, over 7 minutes without.

Senerio Three.grouped with a novice BH and a pistoleer/CH.elite cons blue to the group.Same as senerio two, I keep aggro all the time, no matter what moves I use orwhether I use vk's or not. fight last 45 seconds and I get 1400 exp. I die if I cannot use KD and Dizzy. This group can kill 5-6 times faster, equating to more than double the exp that I could make solo in the same time. Yet, if I didnt have the ability to survive toe-to-tow with this mob, I would not be able to partake in the exp or the fighting with this group. My role in the group was to keep the mob off the ranged guys and stay alive while they killed it. If I cannot do that, they dump me and use their higher level pets, rendering the TKA useless in groups.

Since Mind cannot be healed, the melee classwill never be able to tank a mob in any group that he cannot tank solo. period, end of story. Nerf us and you kill the melee class in PvE. We are already dead in PvP. Melee of high level mobs will be left to the pets, TKA's will be reduced to soloing white and blue mobs, never able to take part in the higher end content.

We have to be able to survive up close and personal fights with high end mobs to have a future in this game. KD and Dizzy is our only means of doing that.The only way to survive more than2-3 rounds with a mob that can hit for 500-800 a pop is not to get hit. Currently, the only way to prevent a mob from hitting you is to keep him knocked down.Thus, KD is essential for melee classes. Dizzy is needed for the 4 legged, bigger mobs that KD doesnt work on so well. If you get resisted or miss a KD, your dead. This happens often. The game is balanced for PvE for the TKA at least, not sure about the other melees. We risk it all to keep the mob down while the rest kill the mob. If we fail, we die and the rest run or kite.

Melee is not needed withpets and kiting, but we can partake because we can tank as well as a pet with KD and dizzy and we do good damage. Nerf us and we will be useless to a group.

PvE is all we have. In PvP, we are the **edit** stepchild unless a ranged is stupid enough to stand still while we dizzy and knock them down. Even then, 50% of the time they can get up and still run away, then kite us when KD wears off. 2-3 expertly aimed mind shots (while running for their lives, shooting over their sholders no less) and we are history. It has been said many times by the development team and the leadership that if a TKA gets in range, a ranged is dead. This is not, and never has been the truth. If a TKA gets in range and the ranged is AFK for 45 seconds, the ranged is dead is more accurate. If the ranged gets in range and stays in range long enough for the TKA to kill them, they are stupid or are looking for a quick ride home. That is a true statement.

But PvP is for another time, another thread. This is about the future of TKA in PvE, which is in jeapordy if this class is balanced to lose 95% of the fights against red con mobs when conned solo. Even if they con green grouped, we will still lose if we attack.

Still lots of threads about "nerf the TKA cause he can solo reds in PvE".

Read the above to understand why a TKA can solo reds even though it is not practical or efficient for him to do so.