Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Tkms, Post your thoughts/feedback on the purposed Fencer change!
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Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:27 am
#1
Tkms, Highest Dps class in the game, Post your feelings/thoughts on this radical change purposed by Zion, for the "severly broken" profession of Fencer, Hold naught back! What will this do to your profession? to the "balance"?
ZionHalcyon wrote:
First, let me say this:
There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders and doing puny damage compared to everyone else, and are such because they fear if we actually were made competitive, we would be nerfed. Please be sure to note these people as such when they post, as they are very obvious. And if you dare to question them, they get very insulting and defensive. I only bring up this point because such people should be left out of an honest discussion such as this, as the majority of us have expressed our displeasure at our weapon selection. So ignore these people when they post - I can't tell you to do that, but I am asking for the sake of keeping honest discussion alive in this thread regarding issues most of us feel strongly about. Thank you.
*edited for formatting to make it more readable.*
How I would rebalance the Fencer Weapons
Keep in mind, I would not mess with damage on most items... a weapons rebalance for fencer would actually be a simple matter:
AP2 Weapons
Master Sword (New)
AP 1 Weapons
Vibroblade
Ryyk Blade
Rantok
Light Foil (New)
AP0 Weapons
Survival Knife
Stone Kinfe
Dagger
Curved Sword
Stun baton
Gaffi Stick
Sword
See, now we have a balance of AP 0 and AP 1, and the AP will make up for the damage.
However, I would like to see the certifications moved up as well.
Currently, the sword, curved sword, and gaffi are all in 1 Handed weapons 1 in brawler, with the Rantok, Ryyk, and Vibroblade going down that tree. I would like to see the Ryyk and the Rantok moved up to Novice Fencer, and Curved Sword moved up to 1 Handed weapons 3, the Sword moved up to 1 Handed Weapons 2, and the Gaffi moved up to 1 handed weapons 4, along with the vibroblade moving up from 1 handed weapons 2 to 1 handed weapons 4. I would also like to see the dagger moved up to 1 Handed weapons 1, and leave the survival Knive and looted stone knife for the novice brawler.
So the shakedown for Certifications for Brawler level to Novice Fencerwould be this:
NOVICE FENCER
Stun Baton(AP 0)
Ryyk Blade (AP 1)
Rantok (AP 1)
MASTER ONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 4)
Gaffi Stick (AP 0)
Vibro Blade (AP 1)
EXPERTONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 3)
Curved Sword(AP 0)
ADVANCEDONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 2)
Sword(AP 0)
INTERMEDIATEONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 1)
Dagger(AP 0)
NOVICE BRAWLER
Survival Knife (AP 0)
Stone Kinfe (AP 0)
I believe this makes a lot of sense in terms of weapon progression, and also in terms of AP. With certain weapons receiving an AP of 1, we have no need to increase the damage. Also, in terms of the Rantok vs the Ryyk, I would make the Rantok have a little bit better stats, since it is a limited quest item - people will still use the Ryyk because it is more easily attainable.
This also solves our issues of wanting to use swords - by moving the Ryyk and Rantok up to AP 1, it gives us useful swords that help with the feel of the profession.
Moving into the Fencer category beyond Novice, I would like to see a Lightfoil, as Oogami put forth, but in the Advanced Box of Stances and Grips. I think it makes sense there, and it should be AP 1. Plus, it gives the fencer another sword to play with. I think the damage for the foil should range from 230min to 270 Max... Not as much damage as a gaffi, but it has the AP1 with it, plus it establishes itself as a higher tiered weapon. I think in this case we should have a different damage type as well - energy - since it essentially is a poor man's lightsaber.
Finally, the Master blade. I have said this before, but I have refined this, and here is what I think:
The Master Blade is a sword only available to a Master Fencer, and is non-tradeable. Nor can you have more than one in any of your inventories. To get another one, your only option is to destroy the first. The Master Blade will be the only fencer weapon that is AP 2. In addition, an optional component for the blade will be one DOT attack, which is given to the blade by using a DNA sample from a Bio Engineer - If the Creature sampled uses a particular DOT attack, then the blade will inherit it. It will be unlimited use, and the potency, strength, and damage will all depend on the quality of the DNA sample.
Before anyone starts saying this will bring Nerfs upon us, thus far this weapon is no different than a Nightsister lance, Grooved 2 hand sword, and countless other looted and craftable weapons that use special schematics. The only thing is that this one gets to be ours. To get the sword, you need to seek out a Fencing master NPC, who will send you on missions to complete. The last mission will be to defeat his prized pupil in front of him. You win, and he gives you aone useschematic for the Master Sword.
You take that to any weaponsmith, and they can make the sword for you (note from earlier you can also bring the DNA sample to the WS to add a DOT to the sword.) Also, once you complete the quest, you can go back to the master at any time and request a schematic, but you will only get another one a) If you do not have the master sword in your possession (yes, you need to destroy yours) and b) you must fight his prized pupil again. This will keep the number of swords in circulation down, and will also stop profiteering from the sword. *Note* When the WS makes the sword, he can only trade the sword to a master fencer, after which the sword becomes untradable).
The Master Sword will have openings for a dna sample (for DOT), a rancor tooth, AND a vibromotor, all OPTIONAL. If you make the sword with no extras, the standard damage in my eyes should be between 300 min- 370 max. All DOT related things other than use will be dependant on the creature the DNA sample is looted from, and the quality of the DNA (note - the DNA is optional, thus so is the DOT attack).
Such a blade will be for masters only, and will add to the lore of fencers.
So there you have it - a quick and easy way to rebalance fencer. Even without the 2 new weapons, the rebalance I put forward would solve a lot of weapon issues for fencer. But for those of you who are looking for more from our weapons - what do you think?
Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-20-2004 03:45 PM
Ryutek
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:39 am
#2
Well, I think the Master Sword idea is overkill as described, and should not be taken seriously unless the Developers plan to have an "Uber" crafted weapon for all classes.
Other than that, though, why would this affect us? Would this not have been best left in the Fencer Forum to be debated and discussed? I'll admit I only scanned over it all, but I didn't really see anything that prompted a reason for us to discuss it, except of course because of the "Master Sword" idea...
Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:43 am
#3
Ohh i was expecting something like an outrage, of an insanly high damage ap2 weapon, with a speed cap of 1second, Tkm's already can barly compete, with such a weapon, even in PvE they would be useless
Ryutek
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:45 am
#4
Vincentarasin wrote:
Ohh i was expecting something like an outrage, of an insanly high damage ap2 weapon, with a speed cap of 1second, Tkm's already can barly compete, with such a weapon, even in PvE they would be useless
Think about it for a moment though, would you really expect the Developement team to implement a single AP2 weapon for one class? I know they don't seem that bright, but can you imagine the outrage that would be caused? Even they are not that stupid...
ruehs
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:12 am
#5
TKM'splease pay no attention to this thread. The proposed Fencer change in this thread was thought up of just one of our members in the fencer community. The proposed change is just that, a proposal by someone who wants something different. The person that posted this in your thread did so just to get people to grief Zion, while Zion just posted what "he" thought would work, not what the "community" thinks would work. Again, please pay no attention to this thread as it was made just to get other professions worked up over something that would probably never happen, thank you.
Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn
SilentJay1284
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:22 am
#6
You'd think the guy who wrote this new fencer weapon proposal would have Fencer and Swordsman. Cause I mean who here isn't able to do that with 250 SP??
EcadMistflier
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:28 am
#7
Don't worry Macross. Those of us who are dedicated to the Teras Kasiprofession and have worked hard to stem the nerf monkeys do not make it a habit of crying nerf on other professions. It is obvious that the recommendations made by this "fencer" are over the top and would create even greater PR problems for the devs if implemented. Each of the combat professions have pros and cons strengths and weaknesses. Fencers have great defenses and somewhat poor offense. That is just the way it is. No one profession should be so empowered that they become the dominate force in any combat situation. We know this and obviously based on your post here you know this as well.
ruehs wrote:
TKM'splease pay no attention to this thread. The proposed Fencer change in this thread was thought up of just one of our members in the fencer community. The proposed change is just that, a proposal by someone who wants something different. The person that posted this in your thread did so just to get people to grief Zion, while Zion just posted what "he" thought would work, not what the "community" thinks would work. Again, please pay no attention to this thread as it was made just to get other professions worked up over something that would probably never happen, thank you.
Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn
Isvurx
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:42 am
#8
Erm, since when is TKA the highest DPS class in the game?
That aside there is a perfect profession for the guy who wrote that message - Swordsman.
Or does he think that it will be balanced if fencers get swordsman weapons and still keep all their defenses? Not my idea of a balanced class.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:27 pm
#9
Ladies and gentlemen, Vince is only trying to sabotage fencer as a class. my changes are not radical, and if anyone has bothered to read through the thread, you will find I reconsidered the focal point vince tries to make, that being a MASTER level weapon being AP 2 - I conceded this is too powerful LONG BEFORE anyone from this forum visited there, and decided to change the status to AP 1. Keep in mind I put forth the proposal as a work in progress, not a final say so. Thus, treat all further posts by vince as an act to troll the fencer forums. Your cooperation is appreciated, and if you wish to propose your own master level weapon to the devs, I will wholeheartedly support it, so long as it has the checks and balances to maintain such a weapon stays in the hands of masters.
Defconn
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:20 pm
#10
Mac and Zion, rest easy. I doubt if you will have problems with the TKA's. You should continue your argument on the improvement of your chosen profession on your boards, as is your right.
hawkbatleader1
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:16 pm
#11
I play a tkm/master fencer.
BOTH classes need some new weapons to keep their place in the game.
Fencers badly need a weapon with at least a 300 or so max damage, and ap1 - at the least.
TKA needs a weapon as well with enhanced damage and another damage type, and we are getting one, albeit it's heat, rather than elec damage as I had originally hoped.
Fencer and TKA need to stand togethor, both classes are well balanced, but with the new loot schematics coming out, the only thing needed in my opinion is for fencer to get a better weapon, with ap, and for TKA to get a better VK and to have their COB fixed.
BOTH classes need the armor hole issues fixed, being that the only class that can get around the armor hole effectively is TKA, but then we have NO ap attacks when we unequip our vk's, and when a fencer unequips weapons, COB looks for a weapon, or an unarmed COB ability.
Stop crying nerf on the other classes... don't we get enough pointed our way to understand that nerfs will ultimately destroy our current satisfaction with our classes success?
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