Teras Kasi Archive

The test center reveals that our unarmed damage is being raised to above beta levels. Fantastic, we all love doing lots of damage. However, in order to do damage you must be able to hit your target. In the current state of the game, with no limitations on knockdown and lunge other than obscene ham costs, it typically takes multiple down-positional changes before I can actually hit a moving target. One to lay the target down, another to get him to slide around, the last for the server to actually place him where he is. If I had a dollar for everytime I was within 2 meters of a moving target as per my targetting window and my combat spam window screamed "Target is out of range." I would have enough to pay my SWG subscription and buy stock in Sony.

Through thick and thin, the #1 problem TKA have (and all other brawlers for that matter) has nothing to do with the uncompensatingamount of damage we deal, the obscene HAM costs of our skills versus all other professions, or the fact that our weapon is usually more hindering than it is helpful, the #1 problem for TKA is that we simply can't hit anything that is moving.

I understand that a great deal of this has to do with the server's latency, which is absolutely smooth as butter until you initiate combat. But there is a REAL problem when with knucklers you are limited to 5 meters to hit someone and because of the poor status of the servers and generally poor design of brawlers, you can be chasing a kiter and actually be within 5 meters and still fail to hit them. So you whip out a lunge or three and then you can start to hit them, if you haven't already been killed.

In light of hearing about this 30 second knockdown timer, I would hope that the cost would be substantially reduced, if not free. The reason the assinine cost was instituted was to prevent people from spamming away at KD.. now if the game is hard coded to prevent KD spams, then there is no reason for the assinine cost. This having been established, knockdown with knucklers should cost no more than 100 HAM with a 30 second timer on it. The developers have accomplished their task of removing the TKA KD strategy (or way of life) and as a result should throw a bone our way. Restore KD costs to launch values if you insist on throwing a timer on it. There is no reason for both safeguards as that is overkill.

What I'm most afraid of with this upcoming change is not that I won't be able to KD spam people to death or that I won't be able to lunge anyone to prone anymore, it's that when I do use KD or lunge, that I won't be able to hit the player that I wasted my 30 second timer on. Even when lunge is working correctly, there are so many times where you lunge a player and he can get up and start running again before you close the distance. The fact that lunge sets you to kneeling means that you don't even have to conciously hit STAND and start running again, all you have to do is right click your mouse and keep kiting. KD is usually effective when it lands.. Lunge usually requires a rinse and repeat.

Vibroknucklers are crippling to use and I'm not even talking about HAM cost amplification. It's enough that specials have an exponential cost when using them but when you wear knucklers, you reduce your range by 20-80% based on latency. I cannot imagine that this is correctible because I'm sure the servers are as tip top as we are going to see them. This having been said, the range reduction on VK's need to be outright removed because what good is greater damage if you can't hit your target even if you are within an appropriate range to hit them.

I take all of the fixes, tweaks and nerfs with a grain of salt these days because they are all 100% unimportant until the #1 issue is resolved. People are thankful for the nice damage boost we are getting but to be bluntly honest, that is useful only in PvE where your target rushes TO you instead of AWAY. Something has to be done to fix TKA (brawlers) and PvP. All of the damage tweaking and increased efficacy of specials are meaningless if you simply can't hit your target.

Thank you for your time. Please agree and/or flame because it's time to shed some light on this topic once again. Awareness is key and people are getting upset over the minor things. It's time to take a hard look at design and stop begging for the scraps and tweaks to fix a broken system.

In addition, could someone from the test center post here and inform us if the knockdown timer is placed on the TKA or the target? I.E. Can you only use the skill once per 30 seconds or can you only use it on each target once per 30 seconds? I certainly hope it's the latter case.

Also, is the KD and lunge timer seperate or do they run off the same timer? Can you KD and then lunge within a 30 second period or is it one or the other?

Thank you.

That was a nice, well thought out post. To bad the developerswont read these boards to get a better understanding of the real problems.

Im not a TKA or any kind of melee class but I read all the boards from time to time and I think that you guys need to ask for one simple thing. A grab command, so that when you get close enough to the target you can grab it and sort of hold it while beating the crap out of it. I am a Pistoleer and I saw an underwriting with one of the post here and is said Pistoleer- the most powerful melee class in SWG, please tell me how, maybe then I could earn some xp when grouping with you TKA and other melee xp hogs hehe. Thats a joke, so don't get bent on it

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FST__Vader wrote:
Im not a TKA or any kind of melee class but I read all the boards from time to time and I think that you guys need to ask for one simple thing. A grab command, so that when you get close enough to the target you can grab it and sort of hold it while beating the crap out of it. I am a Pistoleer and I saw an underwriting with one of the post here and is said Pistoleer- the most powerful melee class in SWG, please tell me how, maybe then I could earn some xp when grouping with you TKA and other melee xp hogs hehe. Thats a joke, so don't get bent on it

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That has been requested many times.

I have to strongly agree on this subject, it's very frustrating to hit anything that is moving away from your target, and if you choose to follow them, what's to stop them from kiting you? A grab command would be very nice and useful. Good post you have there, I hope more melee-ers give it a look, I'd love to hear what the rest of the community thinks about this.

I'm in full agreement on the issues brought up. I'm probably the stupidest player out there considering I'm doing two trees, those being Master TK and Master Ranger, and that's it. I don't have marksman so I don't use any ranged weaponry at all, just pure hand-to-hand because I love the martial arts. But I digress.

It would seem to me that a player running away from me is NOT going to get away. Why? Because I'm a ranger with +70 (or better) on terrain negotiation and I'm not wearing armor. In games like Global Operations or other FPS that did this, the heavy machine gunner was always slower than the recon. Same applies here. You cannot tell me that someone carrying a big rifle and wearing full composite armor is going to outrun a clothing-wearing ranger-esque martial artist.

The problem I see now with KD currently is that when I do land a successful KD, the creature/person is up a second later. Then I get further demoralized when I see a pistoleer come up and pistol whip the fambaa we're fighting and it falls over for 5 seconds. That's REALLY messed up. Or the same situation only I fail the KD four times in a row and he lands a pistol whip and it's down for 5.

Things would be a lot easier if those ranged, while running, receive a penalty to LOS for direction travelling. The longer you run while firing at a target behind you, the easier it is for you to lose sight of the direction you're travelling in. Hence, easier for a TK to actually catch someone.

If the 30 second KD timer goes in, just about the only way I would use that would be if whoever I landed the KD on would actually be on their back for 10 seconds. Or at least the 5 the pistoleer gets with a pistol whip. Throw us a bone already...let me catch my target and actually land a KD.

This needs to be addressed more. Only way it's going to happen is if we start voicing our agreements on this matter (and if you don't agree then poo on you )

/bump

Liriel Baenre

Last night I threw my wireless keyboard after I couldnt land a *LUNGE* when my target was clocked at TWO meters. I think I'm going to remap my screenshot button to mouse3 so I can take a screenshot for everytime I'm OUT OF RANGE when the targetting reticle says I'm within 5 meters.

We need some help here and Liriel is right. The only way we can even try to influence the devs is if everyone gets on board. Post your support or post your disagreement but maybe when the thread has 500 posts, someone might actually take a look at it.

This is the #1 TKA issue. It doesn't matter how much you can hit for if you can't hit... and lately I have been not getting hits that are owed to me by the server. I have been obeying the rules but the computer is cheating.

I'm tired of having to run 3 meters in front of my target's path in order to knock him down when he's on the move. It's irritating to know that you'll miss half your free knockdown attacks just because the target's avatar won't be on the exact spot where the game thinks it is and if he's 3 meters away from his spot, that's 60% of our fighting range.

Lunge is being resisted by EVERYONE now and even when it wasn't resisted, it took two lunges to hit someone. One to get them to kneel-slide to the spot where the server wants them and the second to mae them kneel again where the server actually has them placed. I'm spending >50% of my HAM just to get a target in place so I can hit him and when that happens, sometimes I don't even have enough HAM to get a hit3 in.

I agree the target out of range is a BIG problem. But I think this isn't isolated to just melees. I was trying to heal a guildie last night, was standing at 3-5m and was getting the out of range message. I am suppose to heal up to 7m away. Something is fubar, and its not my connection.

I would stronglu suggest hat TKA get a grapling branch or at least some grapling skills. 90% of all fights, at least one on one end up in the floor or mat. Take a look at the UFC or other sporting events. The people winning this matches are the ones doing grqpling and submission holds. Punches and kicks are good if you have multiple atackers and dont want them to close in. But when grapling that s where the real dmg is done.

Im not saying a good punc and kick is good. Al im saying is that it requires a great deal of expertise, strength, stamina and speed. Not to mention that is prafctically imposible to hit someone (at least efectively) while running. This is where grapling, tackling moves or some sort of flying kick might come in handy.

1. Tackle-should be the most efective way of bringing someone down that is kiting you.

2. Fluing kick-should be a knock down if target is between 2-5 meters away. Target has not started to run or is running slowly due to lack of concentratrion. What I mean is that a target that is running and shooting (on top of it shooting at the target behind him) should be very slow. TRy running blindfolded and lets se how fast you can run, and if you do hapen to run fast (whish is possible) lets see if you dont fall in your face.

3. Finally grapling-Perhaps the most efective method of all. Once target has been tackled or KD with a Flying kick, grapling should be the next step. Bring him to submision, incapacitating him or braking some bones (this way making it impossible to shoot or run). Grapling would be very efective.It should be used almost always especialy if one on one. This way the oponent would not be able to run and his only choice would be to try and fight hand to hand.

I hope this has brought some insight nd that more people support this ideas. MAybe then well get noticed and changes can begin to happen.

Cacco Okabido (Human)

Sunrunner

brawler/scout/?

/bump