Teras Kasi Archive

Teräs Käsi and the Combat Upgrade

I know many of you are concerned over the information that has been released regarding the Combat Upgrade. Some of what I mention I cannot give details on, so please do not ask for specifics. However at this point I want to share with you my opinions of the Combat Upgrade from what information has been released to those who were chosen to be "sandbox testers."

I am very pleased with the direction our profession is being taken, and my only concerns lie in what will become of a couple of skills that we have yet to find out what changes will be made.

I do, however, have one extremely huge complaint, and that is the new requirement of two-handed sword specialization for Teräs Käsi. My reason? Because it makes absolutely no sense in any way. It is ridiculous, and it is something that I will continue to argue against as long as I can. It is, by far, the worst change I have heard thus far, and the one change that I consider so intrinsically idiotic that I do not understand why they cannot understand that it should be changed.

That being said, I love the fact that we are finally gaining the role of the tank. Unarmed fighters should be the premiere choice for avoiding damage, and against armored opponents they will do less damage than those with weapons. This is definitely more realistic than what we have now, and I welcome the change.

The one area that I have some concern over is the reduction in range and the possible reintroduction of kiting as a major issue. Unfortunately we will not know how this plays out until we are actually able to test it, and so I am reserving my opinions for the CU Server.

Please remember that when we look at this system we cannot compare it to what we have now, because everything related to combat is changing. I still have faith in SOE to do this correctly, even though I have rather huge issues with them regarding other things (and those other things are what has me very, very angry with them now, not the CU content).

Please explain to me how in the current system TKM's do unrealistic damage against armored opponents? 220 max VK against 85% kin armor and no ap does far less damage than any ranged profession with AP.

Just saying nothing is changed much as long as we are doing damage against unarmored people.

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Flatlinedmemory wrote:
Please explain to me how in the current system TKM's do unrealistic damage against armored opponents? 220 max VK against 85% kin armor and no ap does far less damage than any ranged profession with AP.

Just saying nothing is changed much as long as we are doing damage against unarmored people.

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The problem is that the new system and the current system are not the same, so your argument is completely invalid with regards to the CU.

Being a guildmate of Mankind, Ive had several discussions about the 2h sword line with him since it was announced.

My opinion has always been the same, if extra skill points are needed to be used for balance, Im totally fine with it, the devs are looking at a much bigger picture than me, and if its needed then so be it.

My gripe is being made to use skill points for the sake of it.
If those 14 points were useful, as the ranged support line is for those proffs, Im sure there would be little outcry.

No, myself, Ill be honest, mytemplate is tkm/master swords , it makes little difference to me in reality, but I see the problem.
It isnt skill point cost, I dont think any sensible person would be up in arms over just skill points, its the potential of wasted skill points , just for the sake of costing 14 more points to master.

Mankind has mentioned several ways around this, posted on this board, things seem to be changing rapidly in the CU at the minute, so I personally am fairly confident that an alternative will be brought in during testing.

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valetman wrote:
My opinion has always been the same, if extra skill points are needed to be used for balance, Im totally fine with it, the devs are looking at a much bigger picture than me, and if its needed then so be it.

My gripe is being made to use skill points for the sake of it.
If those 14 points were useful, as the ranged support line is for those proffs, Im sure there would be little outcry.

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This has been the argument we have made since it was known, and thus far have had no response. I agree wholeheartedly.

For give me my browser will not let me reply to specific posts but the following statment...

"... against armored opponents they will do less damage than those with weapons. This is definitely more realistic than what we have now, and I welcome the change."

You say that the current system is unrealistic. Please explain to me how this is.

Because at the moment we do just as much damage against armored opponents as those with weapons, and in many cases more. I will agree, however, that my statement was not the correct way to word it. The meaning was more that the system as a whole will be more realistic than what we have now, not that particular portion. Either way the new system and old system are not comparable, so any attempt to make a connection between the two regarding damage output is futile.

double post

Message Edited by Flatlinedmemory on 03-30-2005 07:39 AM

Well said , but not entirely true all the time.

Stun will not apply in my following agrument.

The average good VK on most servers is around 215-20. VK's have light ap.

On average good ranged weapons are at least above 400damage( in many cases way above that) and have medium to heavy AP , aside from pistols. The best non stun pistol is a DE-10 that does about 350 damage .

Most people pvp with armor that is at least 80% to kinetic.

As you can see ranged weapons outdamage VK's by far.

In the case that we are out damaging a ranged opponent it is because of the following:

Intimidate.
He isnt wearing 80% kin armor
He isnt using synthsteak.
No melee mitgation
states
Most importantly he is our attack range

If he was kiting effeciantly his armor wouldnt matter, we wouldnt be able to intimdate him or apply states, mitigation wouldnt matter and for the most part what ever weapon he is using can out damage what ever weapon a TK can use by alot.

I know its pointless to argue this now and I agree TK should do very little damage to armored opponents, but to say that a ranged profession cannot outdamage a TK in the current system is wrong. Whether they outdamage us or not is up to them, but the certainly have options and strategies available to them.

I believe you misread, or at the very least misinterpreted my post. I never stated that ranged opponents cannot outdamage us, merely that in many cases we outdamage armed professions.

At any rate, this discussion does not exactly apply to the CU information, so if you'd like we can continue it elsewhere (and I'll have to apologize if I do not explain myself as well as I normally would, I am a little preoccupied with another conversation in another thread at the moment).

It seems to me the line of one-handed to balance out this profession would be the best choice simply due to the fact that we use one -handed weapons. I know why they are adding a branch for our profession, to make it equal sp usage as other professions without the need to create a new tree in the system. I get this. 2 Handed does not make sense though, I completely agree. As a TKM I will never equip a fence or sword, but in terms of real usage, the one handed branch makes a great deal more sense in my mind.

I have many troubles with the new system.

The 6m range could be a major problem due to the fact that the SWG servers just plain don't have the guts to handle it. Its a lag issue. It used to be about 4m... but that didn't work... we were constantly spammed with out of range messages.. dig back a year and a half thru the TK forums and see. We can compare SOE's lousy servers, I doubt they'll be upgrading them in the CU.
Also...
20M is the distance for LUNGE not normal attacks. Get your facts striaght ALL OF YOU!

Now from what I understand with the proposed armor encumberance system, kiting will be less of an issue as anyone in armor will be moving slower. However it would be nice if the DEVs actually followed my advice... then kiting wouldn't be an issue at all.

2-hand pre-req for TKA is plain dumb.
If we must add in skillpoint cost TKA should be hybred with medic general healing.

Yes the two handed requirment is idiotic plain and simple, but remember medic skills would cost more. I think professtion requirments should stay the same an I hope the testers and people involved are arguing this as we speak