Teras Kasi Archive

We've all been mystified by how SQF (Strength/Quickness/Focus)affects HAM costs when specials are thrown, and I've seen a lot of people using the 10:1 ratio for Stat:Cost reduction. It isn't that. I've managed to get close to the actual formula, but there are some tiny fractional amounts which I haven't been able to account for. Still, the formula is pretty damned close and should get you within 1 point of the actual ingame HAM costs of throwing specials.

This means fairly acurate calculators can be built which will show you how HAM costs are affected by adjusting your SQF. Ready?

The SQF value is a 14:1 percentage reduction of the Base Cost of the special attack.

For example:

1. UAH2 has a base cost of 12/18/12.

2. Given an S/Q/F of 400/350/450, the HAM cost is reduced by 28.6% / 25% / 32%.

3. HAM cost for these stats is 9/14/8. That's 8.75 / 13.5 / 8.14 rounded.

I'll stress again that the formula isn't accounting for some fractional amounts, but will usually get within 1 point of actual ingame costs.

HAM cost formula where Base is the H, A or M base cost for the skill and Stat is the relevant SQF value:

Cost = Base * ( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) )

Well, now I suppose you want to know the Base values for all the skills. Try this where Cost is actual, ingame H, A or M cost and Stat is the relevant SQF value:

Base = Cost / ( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) )

For example, given ingame Health cost of 13 and Strength of 380:
Base = 13 / ( 1 - ( 380 / 1400 ) )
Base = 13 / ( 1 - 0.271428571 )
Base = 13 / .728571428
Base = 17.84313725
So Base Health Cost for the special is about 18.

Figuring the Base from existing Stat and Cost values means you are working with rounded numbers ( a cost of 9 may actually be 8.57 rounded up), so again, the results will not always be exact.

I'm currently testing a HAM cost calculator to see if I can refine the formula. I'd be grateful if you would test the calculator at http://www.teraskasi.net/stats_calculator.htmland post your findings on the message board on that site.

Vabro Knuckler encumberance is still a mystery to me, and I suspect the encumberancemay bebroken or we're dealing with some kind of cap on HAM costs. Testing with 34/51/34 VKs, I found the encumberance value didn't seem to make a difference - HAM cost with VKs equipped was slightly less than 3x normal HAM cost across the board. Any insight here would be great.

~Taigei~
Teras Kasi Order ( Bria / Noh Dojo )
http://www.teraskasi.net

Very cool to play around with, thanks.

/salute the fellow math nerd!

Nice Post, Well thought out and Written, Nice to know theres people out there Who are Willing to Provide Info for all of us, Keep up the Good work

Indeed, hats off to you. I have one question though: Where are you getting "base" ham costs from? Isn't it all relative to our SAQ substats?

I, for example use Nexxu Grin almost exclusively without VK's because with my 900 Focus and buffing myself, I see an 8 point mind cost per use...with a 1650 mind pool powerboosted, I can do it all day for typically 700-800 mind-exclusive damage (1500ish when they're KD'd).

If you can help me find how you determine the base cost from, I'll help experiment and we can include this information in the FAQ coming soon.

Base = Cost / ( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) )

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Mister_Heavy wrote:
Base = Cost / ( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) )

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This mean that the moment we hit 1400 in a drain substat (Strength/Quickness/Focus) that we see no cost from that special attack? (baring VKs)

Is 'math nerd' a flame? JK - Actually, the more math heads that get on this the better, and I'm at the point that where I feel the formula here just happens to produce results close to the actual formula. There is that odd frational amount that throws the results off by a point for most skills with a Base HAM under 100 (roughly) and by 2 or more points as the Base HAM increases.

The only Base HAM Cost for which I have Dev confirmation is UAH2. Holo cited UAH2 cost as an example of how TK HAM costs were changed saying UAH2 had been reduced from 21/32/21 to 12/18/12 before any modifiers are applied. So UAH2 is currently the acid test for any formula - it must produce correct results for all SQF values tested. The other Base costs are figured by the formula Mister_Heavy points out:

Base = Cost / ( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) )

And figuring the Base values this way will absolutely produce fractional errors because Cost comes from ingame results reported to us as round numbers. Without the actual fractional result, the formula cannot produce the exact actual value, even if the formula is correct.

There are certainly indications that the formula is incorrect, such as in skills with high HAM costs wherein I am unable to enter a Base value that produces correct results for two different sets of stats. For example:

1. Character1 with Strength 500 receives Health cost of 108 for WarCry.

2. Character2 with Strength380 receives Health cost of 120 for WarCry.

3. Using Character1 values:
108(cost) = 169(base) * ( 1 - ( 500(stat) / 1400 )
169 as Base Costis the only whole number which returns 108 for Character1 using this formula.

4. Using Character2 values, and 169(base) which works for Character1:
Cost = 169 * ( 1 - ( 380 / 1400 ) );
Cost = 123
. . . which is 3 points higher than the actual ingame Cost (120).

This means that Ifthe Base HAM Costs for the skills are all whole numbers, then the formula is wrong. And I'm more inclined to believe that the formula is wrong than that the Base HAM Costs are fractional numbers.

I feel the mostenlightening aspect of the formula is that the SQF stat value is being converted to a percentage used to reduceBase HAM Costs. Right now I'm working with the idea that the actual formula includes some addition and that it looks more like Cost = ( Base + ( Something ) ) * ( 1 - ( Stat / 2000 ) ), but thus farI've found nothing more accurate than the formula posted above.

By all means, if you are intrigued by this kind of problem solving, I'd be happy to share what I have with you. You can email me at [email protected] or post on the http://www.teraskasi.net message boards.

~Taigei~
Teras Kasi Order ( Bria / Noh Dojo )
http://www.teraskasi.net

Oh, LoBai.

Nexu Grin appears to have a base cost of 21/32/21. And now that you mention buffed stats, I haven't tested the skill costs while buffed (I'll be doing that in the nest day or two). Obviously, using the formula here, buffed stats can produce negative numbers, which wouldn't be accurate, and that bit the formula is missing may be revealed in what happens to costs when stats are buffed.

And, right, LoBai, once your stat is 1400 the formula( 1 - ( Stat / 1400 ) ) produces 0, so we need to know what happens to the HAM Cost ingame when Stat >= 1400.

I seem to remember them posting some kind of patch note where they "fixed" the negative rates leading to hyper-buffed people getting negative HAM costs.

Just for grins, I'll ask the combat dev what the formula is. Who knows, he might just tell me.

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Mister_Heavy wrote:
I seem to remember them posting some kind of patch note where they "fixed" the negative rates leading to hyper-buffed people getting negative HAM costs.

Just for grins, I'll ask the combat dev what the formula is. Who knows, he might just tell me.

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That would make me grin too. Thanks for asking.

That would be sweet Heavy, though I admit I'm torn between hearing the formula outright and continuing the delightful pain of figuring it out (does that make me a mathocist?).

I tested very low and negative SQF values and am a bit dismayed by the results. For example, UAH2 never goes higher than 10/15/10 which makes me think that between Holo's post about UAH2 base costs being 12/18/12 the HAM costs were again lowered, and 10/15/10 is the current base cost for UAH2. I'm going to play around with some formulas and see what I come up with, then have a Master Doc buff my SQF and see what happens with very high stats.

Sorry, highest HAM for UAH2 was 10/16/10.