Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKA Stacker and friend vs teh Rancors (Def Acuity may be teh win)
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Chickenlad
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:03 am
#1
I've been debating which template to use to max my creature harvesting. I was really happy when I got 150K of dath carnivore meat in one buff session with my trand TKA/Fencer3440/Ranger 0040. Happy, until my MSword/Ranger 0040 friend said he gets about 300k per 3 hours. /weep. The difference? AE Attacks.
TKMs do have a devestating spin attack, but the range on it is very poor when fighting multiple large creatures, like say, Rancors. Although one can hit 5 or more Rancor youths with spin attack, the way Rancors position themselves when facing 3 or more, usually means that you will only hit 3 or so adults (if anyone has a way around this, post here).
My TKA stats are about;
Trandoshan
MD 126 (125)/RD 99 (Melee Mit 3)
MD 126 (125)/RD 99 (Melee Mit 3)
Def Acuity 96
Unarmed Toughness 57
TKM CoB Not Running (didn't read about possible fix until this morning)
TKA wearing Ubese BP only.
The Swordsman (Msword/MRifle/TKA 4004/Novice Scout) I later used to test had these stats:
Human
MD 134 (125)/RD 132 (125) (Melee/Ranged Mit 3)
CA 110
2 Hand Toughness 43
2HS CoB macro running
Wearing Full Ubese Suit
State defenses/effects I won't bother with, other than to say my TKA performed much better, and they are obviously important, even in PvE.
Off I went to pick a few fights with Enraged Rancor/Bull Rancor lairs in rancor alley. Both characters were buffed so that performing any action took no HAM.
1 on 1 versus an enranged rancor, my TKA takes about 210 damage (average) per hit that goes through (before armor) if the rancor isn't intimidated. The swordsman takes about 260 damage. With my stats in mind, I cannot explain this, unless 14 points in respective weapon toughness accounts for a 50 point damage spread.
Against multiple creatures, the difference in overall damage taken was astonishing. With my TKA against 5 rancors, usually 2 enraged and 3 enraged bulls, I could watch HAM loss tick off over his head at about 1 number per second. With the swordsman, I was watching stacks of 4-5 HAM numbers (damage being dealt tome after armor/mitigation/all that) over my head constantly.
So what's the difference? Is 14 points more of Unarmed Toughness vs Two Handed Toughness that big? Or is defensive acuity actually much more important than we've been thinking? Or am I missing something, eh.
P.S. Any command to cycle through stacked rancor corpses? I love it when /tar corpse picks the one 89m away >< and stays on it.
NeoEcks
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:14 am
#2
you are correct.
Swordsman has a much higher DPS than does TKA
it is one of the things i love so much about the class. it is so well balanced. we are right in the middle.
LESS dps than Swordsman
MORE dps than Fencer
MORE defenses than Swordsman
LESS defenses than Fencer
only ONE damage type, but the meditation tree makes up for that.
we are balanced. i LOVE it.
so yes, if you are looking for dps, Swordsman/Rifleman is...as they say...'the win'
(can't believe i just said "the win")
Swordsman has a much higher DPS than does TKA
it is one of the things i love so much about the class. it is so well balanced. we are right in the middle.
LESS dps than Swordsman
MORE dps than Fencer
MORE defenses than Swordsman
LESS defenses than Fencer
only ONE damage type, but the meditation tree makes up for that.
we are balanced. i LOVE it.
so yes, if you are looking for dps, Swordsman/Rifleman is...as they say...'the win'
(can't believe i just said "the win")
Chickenlad
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:28 am
#3
Yes, TKA was my first mastery a year ago when I started, but what the difference in the two templates that creates such a disparity in damage taken? I'm perplexed.
P.S. Don't feel bad about "the win", I say it in mockery/jest.
Atama
Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:56 pm
#4
"Is 14 points more of Unarmed Toughness vs Two Handed Toughness that big?"
I believe that 14 points means 14% more damage reduction.
Ok let's assume that the 57 toughness reduces damage by 57%. So if you get hit for 210 after the reduction, the hit would have originally been 488 (210 is 43% of 488, or 57% less).
Let's assume that the 43 toughness reduces damage by 43%. So if you get hit for 260 after the reduction, the hit would have originally been 456 (260 is 57% of 456, or 43% less).
That's a large enough discrepancy that I don't think the difference in toughness accounts for it. Either there is something else reducing the damage or toughness isn't a straight percentage.
It's not Defense Acuity. Defense Acuity goes off less often than other defenses in general, and the swordsman had higher Counterattack, and he was using CoB. Also, those defenses determine if an enemy *misses*, not how much damage they do.
Then again I don't know all the conditions you used here so your data might not be accurate.
Chickenlad
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:09 am
#5
Well 210 and 260 were average numbers I came up with while watching my combat spam while fighting, I didn't actually parse (/duck). It's more of a representation of what the average hit was around, so it could be as much as +/- 10 or so, which would allow toughness to be a straight %. I agree with your point about acuity, I was only confused as to why it seemed like my swordsman was getting hit much more often than my tka. I went back yesterday morning and took my TKA and went full blast at lairs and had a conceal shot rifleman ocassionaly throw in a shot to help take it down without getting aggro (to get as many rancors out as I could).
The number of "floaties", (the amount of damage I was actually taking) that appeared over my head increased, although the numbers were of course on the whole, slightly less with the TKA than the swordsman.
TOughest decision I've had to make - but my primary enjoyment is gathering resources for my crafting work. So, I'm going to shift to MSword/Fencer 4440/TKA 4200/Scout 0040 and see if my harvest rates don't go up significantly.
/cry - when my TKA, my first character, got a holocron...it said "Master Droid Engineer"...I said "DE my scaley (explicative deleted)" and never looked back. If it stinks, I'll be back 
Thanks for the opinions.
-Desmo
KillJarJarBinks
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:45 am
#6
PvE swords is much, much better than TK. Not only are they the highest DPS melee profession, they also have access tomore than 1damage type,AND they have access to Blast damage!:::::drool::::: Swordsmen lack state defenses and end up on their backs alot (bad thing!)unless they pick up Doc for state packs or, like you,stack with another melee class.
I have a TKM/MCH/Ranger xx3xthat is a trapper/hunter roleplay experiment (Trandoshan) and not really meant to be "the best", just something fun. The difference between Scout - Hunting 4 and Ranger - Tracking 3 is +30 Creature Harvesting (Tracking 4 is +40), and I've noticed better hide/bone/meat hauls with the added ranger skills. Add tracking and you can track specific animals/resources to maximize your harvest, more so than dropping TKA for swordsman for a higher death count. Honestly, if you're looking for top output on resource gathering, you should get Master Ranger or at least Ranger xx4x for max creature harvesting and the tracking ability, and keep TKM, but that's my opinion.
Just some advice, take a peek at the Ranger forums if you're interested (/shameless recruiting off)..............
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