Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A possible solution to the ranged kite problem
When a ranged fighter is running in one direction and shooting behind them, it should be considered wild shots at best. I suggest the following to help solve this ever increasing problem:
1) Don't allow special attacks while running (except smuggler Wild Shot). Make them stop and turn to do their specials with an increased delay to start the special. A 1-2 second delay can make a world of difference.
2) Greatly reduce the accuracy of these shots, even for the higher level fighters. This can be done on a scaled basis depending upon fighter type and level.
3) Increase the chance of tripping while running and shooting behind. This is due to the fact that you're not looking where you are going.
4) Increase dodge for the TK. As a master of mind and body we should be able to dodge a few shots, even while running.
I know this isn't the complete solution, but I think it's a good start.
1.) No - to big of a nerf to ranged weapon professions.
2.) No - see above...there would be no point in being a master rifleman at all. See a master rifleman is a precision ranged fighter. Their accuracy at range should be the absolute best in the game. If you hinder it in a way you are proposing, even a master would not be all that accurate. Their weapons are slow firing...they wouldn't stand a chance.
3.) I don't have much of a problem with this, but add a skill mod for ranged weapon fighters that gives a chance of springing up quickly from a fall.
4.) Completely whole heartedly agree...but ONLY for TKAs and not all brawler types.
now hereis my suggestion:
add a certification at Novice Brawler for a new thrown weapon: the Bolo. Range min/max/ideal :10/32/20; attack refresh speed:10 seconds til you can do any other specials (not regular attacks though)
You throw it and it does no damage but has a chance of:
a.) dizzying your target (which could cause them to fall down)
b.) tripping your target causing a posture down effect (not a knockdown)
c.) both A and B
d.) missing
A ranged means of posturing down an opponent. It should work on both creatures and humanoids. And it would work for ALL brawler professions not just TKA's. It would grant no experience whatsoever, but it might possibly grant trapping xp ( I can see the scouts/rangers crying nerf already because it would work on humanoids as well as creatures.)
Now, I still am of the mind that the biggest problem I see is that TKA's and Brawlers complain that they are kited...
Ever think about running into a building or the opposite direction? Or here is a novel approach, when and if you do get within 15m of a target...using your lunge move to knock them to their knees so you can get closer?
Staff Sgt. Ishaac
TKA/Commando/Scout
Rebel Alliance
Eclipse server
Mabden: excellent idea. When you stop to think about it, one of the major problems with this game is the fact that Ranged Weapon users can attack while running at maximum speed. This alone causes us no end of grief. This ability should either be removed from the game of EXTREMELY penalized.
Mabden wrote:
When a ranged fighter is running in one direction and shooting behind them, it should be considered wild shots at best. I suggest the following to help solve this ever increasing problem:
1) Don't allow special attacks while running (except smuggler Wild Shot). Make them stop and turn to do their specials with an increased delay to start the special. A 1-2 second delay can make a world of difference.
2) Greatly reduce the accuracy of these shots, even for the higher level fighters. This can be done on a scaled basis depending upon fighter type and level.
3) Increase the chance of tripping while running and shooting behind. This is due to the fact that you're not looking where you are going.
4) Increase dodge for the TK. As a master of mind and body we should be able to dodge a few shots, even while running.
I know this isn't the complete solution, but I think it's a good start.
1) Make all the sense in the world, I do not know how someone could concentrate on running and doing a special skill. However, understand that no profession you have the ability ton run, and do a special, TK included.
2) Again, the abilty to run and shootwith any accuracy she be minimal at best. Perhaps a sliding scale of 5% chance of a hit. How often would you expect to see a Marksman at full gait be able to run in one direction (not look where they are going) and shoot behind them. A markman should have to be still to be accurate. Same with any gun toting class.
3) I like a combination of the first and second posters ideas on this one, you have to have a chance of tripping and having a posture change. The longer you run, the more this increases. It would then give the shooters something to think about, at least they might stop to reset this increasing possibilty.
4) THis has nothing to do with the running, dodge needs to be increased, period!
The key issue here as I see it, is that NO class should be able to shoot behind them effectively while they're running. SWG is like a cowboy movie sometimes, and I won't appeal to realism here except to note that this unrealistic ability gives them a huge edge over melee types. It unbalances PvP for us melee types.
Oikaleek wrote:1.) No - to big of a nerf to ranged weapon professions.
He wasn't talking about a general nerf - just nerfing their ability to run and shoot at the same time. Yes, it would be a nerf, but so what? Like we didn't get nerfed hard?
This would only impose a little more balance in PvP, and that sounds good to me.
2.) No - see above...there would be no point in being a master rifleman at all. See a master rifleman is a precision ranged fighter. Their accuracy at range should be the absolute best in the game. If you hinder it in a way you are proposing, even a master would not be all that accurate. Their weapons are slow firing...they wouldn't stand a chance.
Have you ever tried to fire a rifle over your shoulder while you run at full speed? Rifles are at their most effective when you're lying down or kneeling, with some way to brace your arm while aiming. If anything, there shouldn't even be a way to fire a rifle backwards in the first place. It's dubious at best for pistol, but totally unwarranted for rifles.
now here is my suggestion:add a certification at Novice Brawler for a new thrown weapon: the Bolo. Range min/max/ideal :10/32/20 ; attack refresh speed: 10 seconds til you can do any other specials (not regular attacks though)
You throw it and it does no damage but has a chance of:
a.) dizzying your target (which could cause them to fall down)
b.) tripping your target causing a posture down effect (not a knockdown)
I mentioned bolos some time ago, and agree this is an ideal solution. Also, there are already Phecnacine tranquilizer traps available to scouts which drastically slow mob movement. All they have to do is make them work against player characters and we either get some scout ability (Trapping 3, I believe) or buy the traps from a scout. Everyone can throw - problem solved. The more I think about this, the more I'm incredulous that Raph actually said they'd "given up" on balancing melee characters for PvP. Nerf the duration on tranquilizer traps in PvP if you want, but at least give us *something*.
Rifles are already heavily penalized while moving. Carbines are as well. My example was of a rifleman in the prone position...the amount of damage they can do and their accuracy...not while moving. Pistoleers on the other hand are the biggest problem here. They get a bonus to pistol accuracy while moving (unsure of the others , Rifleman, Carbineer), that makes them too deadly. Couple this with the fact that Pistols seem to suffer no penalty regardless of where they are attacking from (5m or 60m) and it has made Pistoleers the most dangerous people in the game.
I understand that this is a game, so there needs to be some balance. But whoever thinks that someone that brings their vibroknucklers ,sword, pike, or baton to a gun fight and expects to stand a chance is dillusional...
It has been clearly stated numerous times that the combat system of this game favors Ranged weapons...not melee...you CAN melee...but don't expect to defeat someone thatis good with a ranged weapon. That's pretty simple logic.
reread and realised I misread the first post in that those applied to "while moving" btw, nullifying my rifle example...
basically it is like this...I agree, rifles should suffer heavy penalties while moving...and they do right now so whats the problem? Im a master marksman and rarely do I hit with a rifle unless I am standing still, kneeling or prone. Not too mention the fact that I have to be at least 20m away or so otherwise I suffer even more damage penalties...even though within 20m I still usually miss most of the time.
I cant speak much for carbines, only that I know they have a skill mod in the Carbineer tree of accuracy while moving.
I reitterate that Pistoleer's are the real problem here because of their accuracy while moving bonuses and that they seem to suffer no range penalties.
If a brawler-type prof. should have any chance against a ranged weapon opponent, it should be pistol wielders since they should have to be closer to do any significant damage.
As for actually shooting while on the move:
I can shoot a target with a .45 cal pistol running at top speed from 15m and hit close to bullseye 50% of the time...now...that's not necessarily running away from something and firing over my shoulder an all...but...I can still shoot a pistol that well..
Never shot a carbine, but doubt I could hit anything while moving with one.
Rifle would be next to impossible to hit anything
/shrug
Great ideas.
We're supposedly overpowerd--yet, ranged weapon users can solo stuff all day, with little or no downtime due to the fact that their special moves cost a FRACTION of what melee users have to deal with and they rarely even get hit. (Of course, SOE isn't explaining what sort of twisted logic they're using tocome up with that.)
Am I the only one who finds 'kiting' in general to be overpowered. As a pistoleer, I can solo red con mobs all day without even being TOUCHED. I'm sorry, something needs to nerfed ... and it's not the TKA profession.
If SOE wants (at the very least) a "semblence" of balance, then these ideas seem likea step in the right direction.
To Oikaleek,
My main arguement was for carbine and pistol. I've played a rifleman and know how bad the accuracy is when moving, but still don't believe that it should be very good. The rifle can have great accuracy, but it does take time to aim.
As for Bolas, personally I don't think an unarmed artist should have to rely upon weapons. I do use a VK, but that's because of the nerfs on unarmed TK. When they make it so I can string a few specials together without incapping myself I'll drop the VK.
Antagio,
Novice TK/Ranger