Teras Kasi Archive

I like the idea of having stun and restraint damage. but my biggest concern is the people who are not paying attention. I speak of those who still want the kiter-catcher skill. We have a skill that does it already. In fact we have many. Lunges and UKD1 and 2 all have a range of 20m (yes, twenty meters!) even with Vk's on. Also, they can be use while running. You have the tools to catch kiters. It is not only possible, it is likely. There is now no excuse to complain about kiters. We can catch them if we use our heads and skills. I personally think that we don't need anything else to catch kiters, we are well equipped. And if you get Ko'd by a rifleman at 60M, well that is kinda the point of riflemen. that is what they do. if you had gotten close, he would have been ripped to riflemen kibble.

Many thanks to Mister_Heavy for such an indepth report. As someone just started on the road to TKA (I'm currently Unarmed IV with 63K UA exp) I found it quite interesting. Most of the issues are things I've yet to deal with or experience but I do agree about the VK animations. If TKAs can use them, it just makes sense for them to have one in each hand.

Now I'm not terribly familiar with TKA outside of the PS fighting game. I've done some cursory checking online and it seems that in the Star Wars EU, TKA was started to keep the Jedi in check after they virtually destroyed a planet in a battle. TKA masters are allegedly feared by even Jedi, some how I don't think that'll be the case in this game, but I've never heard of or witnessed a battle between a Dark Jedi and Master TKA player.

All in all I'm having a blast with Unarmed and hope to reach Nov TKA soon.

Safe Journies,

Ecaj - Wookie Wanderhome

Master Ranger, Nov Brawler 4/0/0/0, Nov Medic 2/2/1/4, Nov CH 3/2/0/0

SIth, last week I was reading about a Jedi Intiate and a TKM fighting (you may be able to find it on the Jedi forum), and the result was . . . . you guessed it, the Intiate killed the TKM. The TKM got, I think about two hits in before the lightsaber cut him in two. lol or somthing like that.

Read the Jedi forum. Basically most classes, even BH's don't stand much of a chance outside of really sneaky tactics. But, then, that is to be expected since the Dev's always said Jedi would be overpowerd.

I too hope that TK will not be nerfed. It makes a lot more sense to raise the level of other brawler professions so that they have comperable but distinct abilites, on par with TK's.

I've been a master for a while and love it. A few things I'd like to see TK get (some mentioned already but I mention them again to add my vote):

- I agree that twin VKs would be fun. It could be craftable as a single item and equiped that way with possibly an increase in damage. I think it should be something that only a master TK can use, though.

- There is no mention of The Force on the TK skill tree. It would be nice if our use of The Force was mentioned at least briefly in the skill tree descriptions. I don't think a lot of people even know that TK is Force related.

- Better Defense vs. Knockdown. It seems to me that a TKA should be rather hard to knockdown.

- An increase in HAM regeneration when Meditating based on your Meditation mod.

- Something needs to be done about NPCs and creatures leaving combat. Many times when I get one of these opponents down the the last of their hit points they decide to just turn around and slowly walk away from me. First, it's unrealistic and odd to watch, and second it forces me to chase them down and try to damage them while we're both moving. Somehow, while we're moving they are able to do a lot more damage to me than I can to them. If it's a close fight this may result in me loosing. Lunge and knockdown do not seem to help this problem as much as they should.

I think that if TKM's are even feared by Jedi, then they need to change our current TKM title to TK Initiate and give us another set of skill trees to TKM just like the 3 setes the Jedi have to complete.

Ok check this, I'm only unarmmed four, and I'm wokring real hard toward TKA. From what I'm seeing we unarmmed and all brawlers alike should have MANY types of damage/attacks/buff-debuff at our dissposal. We are the weaklings when it come to PvP unless we are standing in the persons face. Even so we need to be able to addapt to any situation just like every fricken marksman/commando/bounty hunter can. All we have that's even worth using is knockdown/stun and UH1/UH2. Nothing else even works right let alone enough attacks to deal with different apponents.

On another note, I am a master carbineer(which sucks BTW) who has turned brawler. I discovered something in going unarmmed. I GOT TWO FRICKEN ATTACKS PEOPLE!!!!! Carbineer I could change guns to adapt to any opponent and could kill just about anything creature human you name it I could find it's weakness and kill it. Unarmmed can only punch them to death. Ok and what is the point of giving us a "weapon" (VK) when it only helps damage modifier. How about giving us a reason to use a VK for strategy instead of punching harder. WHen Ranged weapons have 20 some attacks at there disposal then we should be equal to that amount of strategy.

Happy Friday everyone In our grand tradition of Friday updates, here's the latest version of our SoP thread.

I've received a pretty definitive answer from the devs that they aren't going to be adding any weapons to the unarmed brawler branch, so I'm taking that off the list. Additional weapons/damage types for TKAs is still in discussion.

I can tell you guys that there are a lot of exciting things coming along from the development side. Although they pulled the HAM changes on TC, the devs have a long term plan to overhaul the way special moves costs are applied to HAM, and we can expect to see an evolved version of the system in the not too distant future.

Beyond that, there are a few other global balancing changes coming down the pike. I have no knowledge of specifically how these will effect TKAs, or any of the professions for that matter, but we'll see the changes on TC before anything goes to live, so we'll have time to check it out and test. I'll tell you guys more about this as soon as I'm allowed.

I know that progress on some of our issues (particularly the FoW timer and CoB) has been slow. I'm still pushing these points on a daily basis, and I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear anything definitive.

One change I've made is takingbody hit and leg hit off the "ineffecitve specials" list. A couple people broughtthis up to me andin looking at them, they seem to do the same damage as mind hit for about the same HAM.In the interest of focusing the dev's attention on our most important issues, I've removed them. If anyone feels strongly that they should be on there, please speak up. Other suggestions since the last update seem to be different ways to implement existing suggestions.

Just to let you know, I'm going to be refreshing the "for discussion" section every week. If there's been no discussion on a "for discussion" topic, we'll just let it drop until it comes up again.

Sage1, I know some of your requests didn't get in here, but it's only because I don't seecommunity consensus on, for example, 250 points of body armor in each tree, or 500 damage with or without VKs going up to 750 in big fights. I'd encourage you to go ahead and make a post on those things and get feedback from the rest of the community. If you've already dont that, and I've missed the thread, I apologize, and if you could provide the link that'd be great.

Personal request - TKA and the force
There's a lot going around about TKAs being FS and fighting Jedi, etc. I have yet to read from any officially sanctioned source that TKAs are force sensitive, or that they exist to control the Jedi, or that they are capable of fighting Jedi and winning. Of course, just because I haven't read it doesn't mean it's not out there, so if anyone has a link to where an official Lucas site talks about TKAs having FS powers and the like, please post a link on this thread or send me a private message.

TKA SoP

TKA Overall Top 5 Issues

1. Bug/Balance - CoB is not effective for TKAs. Whether this is a bug or intentional, we would like TKAs to be included in the skill that was designed to "fix" melee's ability to tank.
   
2. Balance - Ineffective specials: FoW timer, Combo1, Combo2, UH3, SA2
   
3. Balance - Limited weapon/damage type selection: Currently restricted to Kinetic damage
   
4. Balance -Kiting: Would like some way of catching a kiter. Doesn't have to be easy, just possible.
   
5. Bug - Double Knockdown leads to the MOB immediately standing.

For Discussion

1. Thrown weapons - should we have them? We're a melee profession, and some of our attacks already have ranges of up to 15m (lunge IIRC). Do we really want a true ranged attack, and do we think it'd be balanced if we had one?

Summary of Changes

Balance

1. 
   
   Removed body hit and leg hit from the "ineffective specials" list.
   
2. Removed request for additional weapons for the unarmed brawler branch due to dev feedback.

Gameplay

1. No changes

Bugs

1. Added that Meditation mind buffs do not work with dancer buffs.

Wishlist

1. No changes

Special Note - Double KD bug: As this bug is more than just TKA, we felt that it should receive special attention. If you knock a target down, and then that target receives another knockdown attempt, the target will immediately stand, even if dizzy. Opposing faction players are now using this tactic to help MOBs up that are attacking enemy combatants. Pleaseaddress this as soon as reasonably possible as it is a rather wide-spread issue.

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Balance Issues

1. Ineffective specials:




1. Combo 1 and 2 are still useless skills. There is no reason that anyone would want to spread their damage over multiple pools. One suggestion is to have these skills apply multiple debuffs to the target in a single attack. Blind/Stun for example. The combo attacks should have a better chance of "sticking" the special than you get with the unarmed brawler skills.
   
2. Unarmed Hit 3 uses too much HAM for the damage it does. The general consensus is that UH2 is a better skill overall due to the efficiency. Suggest reducing the HAM cost for UH3 or having the skill grant you a +1 bonus to your attack's AP rating.
   
3. Knockdowns: There are reports of our (TKA) knockdowns not working often enough compared to ranged KDs. Melee knockdowns of all types should be more effective in general than ranged KDs.
   
4. SpinAttack skills are not really useful against mobs you fight at TKM level. SpinAttack2 should be useful for fighting multiple end-game mobs. Suggest looking at the damage and HAM costs for balance.
   
5. FoW as it is on TC is not a satisfactory change. Assuming that FoW is going to stay more or less in it's current form, we have a number of requests for alterations working within the the skill's present format. Our concerns and suggested remedies are presented here in order if importance:
   
   
   
   1. 1 hour timer is too long (critical)
      
      
      
      • Concern: This will kill the skill. Many people would prefer to have the skill remain as it is rather than have a 1 hour timer on the skill. This is not to say that people do not want the skill improved. I’m just trying to illustrate how strongly people oppose the 1 hour timer.
        
      • Remedy: Adjust the timer to 15 minutes. A 15 minute timer will get you out of a bad situation once, but you couldn't use it more than once in a regular battle. A compromise here would be to run the timer so a TKA with master med would have a 30 minute timer, while a TKM would have a 15 min timer. This is a deal-killer. Keep the 1 hour timer and the reaction will be highly negative.
      
      
   2. Battle Fatigue is too harsh
      
      
      
      • Concern: The 300 wounds we can deal with, but the way it’s currently set up, you have a 40% chance of incurring BF when using the skill. People feel that it’s an unnecessary and unreasonable penalty. We’d incur more battle fatigue for avoiding death than for actually being killed.
        
      • Remedy: Remove BF as a penalty. Why should you get battle fatigue for avoiding death? This is also an extremely important point. BF=Downtime, and there seems to be no real need to have this in there anyway. At the very least, the BF needs to be drastically reduced. 10-15 BF would be an acceptable annoyance. 100 BF is prohibitive.
      
      
   3. 5 minute HAM penalty is too long
      
      
      
      • Concern: A 600 point HAM penalty for 5 minutes is actually worse than 300 wounds. With master meditation, we have a reasonably expedient way to deal with wounds. In contrast a 600 point penalty for 5 minutes seems overly harsh to most players.
        
      • Remedy: Reduce the HAM penalty timer from 5 minutes to 1 minute. You could leave this unchanged and not face open revolt, but it does seem overly harsh.
      
      
   4. No potential for an exceptional result.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   • Concern: There's no fun upside potential. All those penalties, and no possibility of a superior result.
     
   • Remedy: Add the possibility of a superior success. We'd like there to be a 3%-4% chance that using the skill will heal you up fully, rather than equalizing your stats. This would not heal wounds, just HAM damage, and would be for TKMs only. This is not as important as points 1 and 2, but would not greatly alter the power of the skill, and would make the TKAs happy.


2. Limited damage types: The primary problem here is that kinetic damage is our only option. We need to be able to deal with a greater variety of creatures/resists. Suggestions include:
   
   
   
   1. Additional damage types through additional weapons:You could havea cold damage weapon, heat damage weapon, stun gauntlets, etc
      
   2. Additional damage types through skills: TKAs could have skills that did different damage types. For example, both stun damage and restraint damage seem like reasonabledamage types for an unarmed fighter.Allowing this only while truly unarmed (no VKs) might also satisfy the gameplay request for a reasonable alternative to VKs.
   
   
3. Kiting: Many of us still feel helpless trying to use melee skills in PvP because of Kiting. We recognize that ranged attacks have an inherent advantage, but we would like some way of catching up to a kiter. Suggestion include a "stick" command, which would keep us within 1-3 meters of a target if possible, or a mini-burstrun ability. We don't want it to be easy to catch a kiter, just possible. You could balance the skill with HAM costs/timers/footspeed. Of course, this skill, whatever it may be, should be given to all brawlers.
   
4. Lack of truly high-end VKs: A related problem is the lack of optional, high-end components for VKs. Rancor teath replace as opposed to augment a critical part of the VK. Rancor teeth seem to be the VK version of Kryat tissues, so either rancor teeth need to be seriously buffed in terms of the bonuses they give, or they need to be made an optional component in the VK schematic, instead of a replacement part. Is there any way to get an "uber" VK, similar to the 700 dmg 0.3 speed FWG5 everyone is talking about?
   
5. HAM Regen while Meditating: We would like some modest boost to HAM regen while in meditation. A popular suggestion would be to add our meditation score to our regen stats while meditating. The boost would be modest, but would help the med line be more appealing.
   
6. Meditation Restrictions: Allow us to meditate while in combat, and regardless of any states applied to us. Often times we need to retreat to heal poison or disease, but can't because we can't peace out, even if the mob is targeting another player at the time.
   
7. Warcry seems to be too inconsistent, especially on higher level mobs. Even Warcry2, which has a longer duration, does not seem to stick often enough (perhaps 20% or so). As brawlers become more powerful, this skill should be ramped to deal with tougher creatures.

Gameplay Issues

1. VK Animations: Right now you hold a VK in one hand, but all your attacks receive the VK bonus. Turning it into a "pair" of VKs and not having kicks be a part of VK attack animations would help some of the immersion problems created by VKs
   
2. VK's:We'd like some way to feel that we didn't need to use them to compete damage wise. Something along the lines of bare fists doing stun damage, or some other lateral advantage for being truly unarmed would help.
   
3. Combat Animations: We'd like the game to make greater use of the varied combat animations we presently have. Right now we seem to only use a few of our animations unless we're doing a special.
   
4. Red Ribbons: We'd like the option to toggle off the "red ribbons" for specials
   
5. Auto Defend: We'd like the option to toggle off the auto defend AI
   
6. Emotes: We'd like TKA-specific animations and emotes, like Katas and a martial-arts sound for warcry.
   
7. Immersive Combat: We'd like the combat system to be more immersive. This is a big request, but a dev mentioned somthing about the possibility of a combo system, where stringing multiple moves together in a particular would become important. We'd like to know the status of that.
   
8. TKA-Specific quests: Some kind of epic mind/body adventure where you quest for some forgotten lore of the ancient Teras Kasi deep in the hidden mountains. The reward could be something like a schematic for a legendary component that you could place in a VK (instead of the rancor teeth perhaps).
   
9. Med while Running: Please allow us to initiate meditation while running. The "you cannot meditate while running" message is very annoying.

Bugs

1. Center of Being is still not working for TKAs. In testing, some have noticed a slight reduction in the frequency of hits taken, but absolutely nothing like what the other classes are seeing. We believe this is a bug, but would like for this skill to be effective, regardless of the reason for it's current state.
   
2. Double KD: If you KD an opponent, and then hit him with another KD, he will immediately get right up, even if dizzy.
   
3. Meditation & Dancer buffs: If you get a mind buff from a Dancer, and then use Power boost, you will loose the Dancer buff. The PB mind buff should use your base max mind value and add 50% of that on top of whatever other mind buffs you might have. If you have 1000 base mind andget dancer buffed to 2000, PB should take you to 2500. As it is, it drops you to 1500.
   
4. Unarmed Combo 2 is registering 1 point of damage done to the target in the combat spam.
   
5. Optimum range. At 1M we should have a bonus to hit, but it seems like we're still getting negative modifiers.
   
6. Creature to-hit: It seems that the scout "creature to hit bonuses" apply only to ranged attackers. Want to make sure they apply to melee as well.
   
7. Berserk: Does not show up in the combat queue.
   
8. Meditation log-out We have reports of people being stuck in the meditate state upon logging in if they logout while meditating
   
9. Dizzy effectiveness: Dizzy only works on creatures with 2 legs. Need to know if this is as intended.
   
10. HAM bars when Buffed:HAM bars do not display properly when using power boost. If you take damage, your HAM bar won't go down until you dip below your pre-boost levels. Wearing armor may exacerbate this problem.
    
11. Dizzy activates with no posture change: Attempting a posture change to your current posture (e.g. trying to stand while standing) will cause you to fall over if dizzy.
    
12. Debuffs not initiating combat: If you initiate combat with a debuff or status effect, your combat queue may forget the command and you initiate combat without executing the command. Noticed most with Inimidate, Warcry, and Taunt. If you initiate combat with any of these skills, the skill is not executed but you begin combat.
    
13. Knockdown durration: seems to have a shorter durration than before the city patch. Since this was not listed in the patch notes, we are reporting it as a bug until we hear otherwise.
    
14. UC1 and UC2 damage:both have a 2.5 damage multiplier. Is this intended? Is there some other thing that UC2 does better than UC1 which justifies the two skills doing the same damage?

Wishlist

1. Dojo: Many of us would like a Dojo, either as a player owned building or as a class-specific theme park type of thing (combat the rival Dojo).
   
2. Attack animations: It'd be cool if we could choose each individual "per hit" attack animation wile attacking.
   
3. Attack animations: When /if the Dev's implement the combo move combat system, we'd like there to be cool, unique animations for each combo.
   
4. Attack animations: We'd like some new animations for some skills. Perhaps a flying kick for lunge 2, and throws or flips for the knockdown moves.
   
5. Clothing: We'd like TKA clothes like a martial arts Gi, different color martial-arts belts, headbands, etc.

Message Edited by Mister_Heavy on 12-05-2003 09:11 AM

Thunderheart just implied a TK nerf. Read about it:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=14947#M14947

Heavy Outstanding job on SoP! Keep up the good work!

Hopefully this won't be considered Hijacking the thread.. Other than the kiting issue I really like TK.

I had to chirp in about the different damage types though. I personally don't see that we would be doing anything but Kinetic and enregy attacks.

For all those people that do not do more than dabble in the different martial arts Chi or Ki power is a type of energy attack and it can be used quite effectively against armoured opponents.It essentially ignores armour by passing through it ( this of course depends on whether or not you are attempting to pass through it to damage the soft tissues that are hidden behind it). There is a whole discussion that could evolve from this so I will jump to my next little tidbit of information.

A bleeding type special would not be beyond comprehension either as there are attacks that are designed to do just that (i.e. crane and mantis style of attacks come to mind).

I am not trying to say that we need these just pointing out that the request really isnt that farfetched when looked at. As far as I am concerned we are a pretty un-nerfed class (other than kiting).

Anyone interested in a thread discussing martial arts and what could be brought into the game that isn't to farfetched?

hi guys..

things are definately shaping up since i first donned the master tka title back in july..

there are some things id like to say.. please dont flame just say i dont agree if you dont

i have no problem knocking mobs down.. things that i fight are at my current level and i do not attempt red creatures or mobs.. if knocking down these things are on that list i have to say remove it because it wont happen

UH3 works for me... and this is live im talkin about.. infact when i see two tka duel its spammed quite often so it works for them too

combo 1 and 2 are good points they are useless

what i would like to see?

Bigger and better defensive mods for master brawlers that take tka or any other melee skill and id like the melee skills to stack, reason being is if you spend your whole life learning melee combat swords, staves and unarmed fighting to master it as a whole all these defences should stack.. even improve your understanding of melee combat better than just going the cheap route unarmed four to tka master.. I know we get a toughness boost and lunge 2 and all that jazz... but to dodge with a sword is harder to dodge without in my opinion.. (perhaps this should be on the Brawler board too).. i think its silly to have to equip a sword just to have defences tka get unarmed toughness and a pathetic equilibrium mod which has never worked for me..

my biggest gripe with the tka profession right now is its too aggressive not enough defensive.. unarmed combat should be wayyy more defensive as opposed to being a true damage dealer in my opinion.. but this is a fantasy game so i guess space bruce can break ceraplast with side kicks..

im not dissin the profession as i said i have been a master alot longer than most of you and am the oldest on my server now.. all others have fled to more lucrative professions before fixes were placed

id just like to see all the melee skills able to be blended together which is something unique to the melee professions because really its all related.

unlike pistols to carbines to rifles.. where one weapon is totally different from the other in terms of blast strength, recoil, firing modes, aiming techniques.. i can see why pistoleers get the defence mods carbiniers get the high powered knockdowns, and riflemen get the precision shots at a distance.

as far as thrown weapons?.. this is a no no the mastery of this profession is 92 sp even if you went masterbrawler then master tka you could still master pistoleer or carbinier or the rifle.. ranged falls under the ranged category in my book and throwing stars and the like are just that ranged combat.. perhaps if they added four moreprofessions for ancientor archaiac (however its spelled) rangedweapons then that would be a different thing altogether

misterheavy it is nice to see you doing your work as our correspondant.. i dint know if you have ever followed any of my posts but i have been against alot of the requests made as far as top five issues wayyy back when our last correspondant asked for a kata (which tells the devs hmmm nothing is wrong if they want a kata) and so far i dont think none of those issues came into the light of day except maybe the kiting gig... life is so much easier when lunge works like it should (when it lands that is)

force of will needs to have the timer reduced and nothing else... 15 minutes for this is acceptable.. this illustrates that we are hard to kill.. as discribed in the swg manual all other penalties in my opinion are fine.. sometimes it works well andsometimes it dont work at all.

CoB for tka is laughable... its funny to know how many of our brothers and sisters that do not follow these forums, and do not know this is total trash broken and ineffective.. they swear this will save them from a novice fencer lol.. when they cant lay hand or foot on the fencer and the fencer is pickin them apart with his sword..

and finally id like to see deeper tactics instead of the normal 2 special hit wonder kd2 and ua hit 3 or kd2 and headhit .. give me a break please.. give us resists and bonuses to intimidate, and warcry, and stun.. yes i know these are brawler mods. But as you mature into the fighter wouldnt your tactics get deeper? sometimes all the difference in a fight can be wether you can get intimidate off or warcry off

well thats all i have to say on this.. you may flame me if you wish i do not care.. or you may agree with me some of you might.. I know some people would like to see meaningful melee combat instead of a swirling red ribbon storm and who ever gets the kd off first wins (that still holds true today, unless buffs and armor are involved)

Mr_Heavy, nice update, thanks for staying so on top of things.

I just want to reiterate how desperate I am for some CoB/passive defense help and some concrete info on how TK defenses stack or don't stack with other professions. It seems there's near total agreement that melee and ranged defenses stack across professions but little reliable info on other defenses and little info (that I've found) on exactly how much good ranged/melee defense is (i.e if i'm fighting a rancor and I have 10 more melee defense than the next player, will I live longer, all things the same, or is that an irrelevent ammount of defense? what about +50? +100?...).

Of course being a wookie without any advanced composite dreadlocks in my fur defense is of particular interest to me.

thanks very much for your work
Ravana de Bria

AFAIK, TKA is not Force related, per-sé. TKA was started after the Jedi (during a battle) decimated a race. TKA was started or adapted to keep Jedi power in check, to preven another such desaster. While some TKA's may be Force sensitive, they draw upon inner power while Jedi draw their power from the Force. Fact is TKA should not be able to wear armor, but get "natural" armor like the Dark Jedi and FS NPCs do. TKA should also get limited resistence to Jedi powers. If this is going to be an RPG, let's make this class what it was truely meant to be.

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MarkAStewart wrote:
*clipped*
- There is no mention of The Force on the TK skill tree. It would be nice if our use of The Force was mentioned at least briefly in the skill tree descriptions. I don't think a lot of people even know that TK is Force related.

This is exactly what I was afraid of, what good is TKA if a Jedi Initiate can defeat a Master TKA with little to no effort? I'm falling for TKA like I did for Ranger, which means good or bad, I'm in it for the long-haul. Still be nice if the profession was what it was meant to be though.

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Al-Adi-Kia wrote:

SIth, last week I was reading about a Jedi Intiate and a TKM fighting (you may be able to find it on the Jedi forum), and the result was . . . . you guessed it, the Intiate killed the TKM. The TKM got, I think about two hits in before the lightsaber cut him in two. lol or somthing like that.

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