Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Thoughts for discussion...
Xeranx
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:19 am
#53
Ryutek wrote:
Because from a balancing perspective we would get AP1 abilities without costing us really any HAM, and would even be further unbalanced if we achieved AP2 at Master. I agree with your point, and it should not be as high as the VKs, but would probably need some adjustment...
Something just occurred to me and I think we would be better off having gloves instead of going completely barehanded.
Removing the vk and leaving us with an unarmed capacity that will have a bit of a cost moreso than we have now will become a hindrance.
Right now there's no one around that will attempt to take on a group of defenders with vks unbuffed because the cost is a deterrent. Now if we don't have the vks and have the costs transferred to our fists we would, in effect, be deterred from using our full capibilities. It would then force us to get buffed to be able to do anything. Of course the combat balance might address the problem, but we don't know exactly what the combat balance will do to us in terms of our abilities (attacks/defenses).
Grimror
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:21 am
#54
I guess my only concern is right now there are much bigger fish to fry then whether or not we need a new damage type and/or go completey unarmed. TKA is definately a playable profession atm, and quite frankly combat balancing should be addressed before any ideas are pushed so we can get a good indication as to where we sit in comparison to other jobs. I don't speak for the community, but I feel that most of these issues are very cosmetic. I feel pushing for any of these ideas (except maybe a new damage type on a new type of vk) is not really necessary, especially in light of the fact that we are going to be CB in the near future.
In the end i vote for:
1) Possible new damage type through the new type of vk. I don't see the devs changing thier approach for doling out damage types, even with combat rebalance. Even if they did, I don't like any of the options I'm hearing in this thread (my opinion, sorry all of you offering ideas, other then artificial limbs etc).
2) Don't take away my vks. If you don't want to use a VK, nothing is forcing you from using a VK. With HAM changes and CB revamp coming, I have a feeling we are going to be seeing HAM costs playing a little more of a role then the cost free special world we are living in today, which will make there be trade offs for the extra damage that VKs afford us...
Anyhow, not trying to stifle the conversation, I just feel that given the near term dev team goal of Combat Balance, figuring out and possibly playing a role in helping the devs hash out where we fit into it all is alot more important then a few cosmetic issues that I see thrown around from time to time, like true unarmed combat, TKA specific armor, etc. Better to be proactive rather than reactive.
Ryutek
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:41 am
#55
Grimror wrote:
I guess my only concern is right now there are much bigger fish to fry then whether or not we need a new damage type and/or go completey unarmed. TKA is definately a playable profession atm, and quite frankly combat balancing should be addressed before any ideas are pushed so we can get a good indication as to where we sit in comparison to other jobs. I don't speak for the community, but I feel that most of these issues are very cosmetic. I feel pushing for any of these ideas (except maybe a new damage type on a new type of vk) is not really necessary, especially in light of the fact that we are going to be CB in the near future.
I agree, but I am not the type to wait until the last moment to get a debate going either. It may be months down the road, but if I already know what the Community wants then when the time is right I can play that card 
Between now and the CB many things will most likely change. Among those could easily be the need for an alternate damage type. On the same token, though, we may end up being asked "Hey, we could do this right now if you guys want, what do you say?" and I would much rather be prepared than to say "Well, let me go ask" 
Utess
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:45 am
#56
Knocky wrote:
comandobob wrote:
Knocky wrote:
One of our state attacks is stun...so I see Stun damage is very reasonable.
it has being stated by the dev's that stun danamage was never ment to by that powerful , so i realy dont see why we would need stun , are blast are electrcity , if any thing energy are heat as we build both of these when we use are moves in any martial art
Are you saying that the Devs intended the Fencers to be a gimped profession from the start?
Also...the Devs also said that Jedi would be rare...
No lol. It is just the devs never intended stun damage to be *the* damage type for PvP play. They never anticipated we would make armor as good as we have. So, once they adjust armor as part of the CB, stun will be just as good as it always has been, but it won't be the only best choice.
Iawo
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:04 am
#57
Keep the knucklers, just give us more options. Give us some different damage type knucklers with ap2 and slightly lower damage than standard VKs, and a quest for a higher damaged one. Make the lower damaged ones require loot drops, but don't make them as rare as current VK parts are as of right now.
Grimror
Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:18 am
#58
You're not getting the point. I don't care that swordsman have to do a quest or two for a weapon, or that pikemen have toloot thisor that. The point is that The power hammer is a normal weapon which is AP2 i beleive and does alternate damage types. The stun batton does alternate damage types. These weapons don't have to be looted, quested etc. Smiths can make them. His request was simply that if a new damage type or new weapon be added, make then standard, craftable and accessable. In other words, give us comprable accessable weapons like the PH and stun batton. Anyhow, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with his ideas, just wanted to point out the flaw in a rebuttal.How would swordsmen feel if the PH was moved to a quest only or loot only weapon? Probably prettyticked off.
comandobob wrote:
Grimror wrote:
FYI, fencers don't have to do a quest to get stun damage, swordsmen don't need to do a quest to get thier power hammer, etc. So his request isnt too much out of line....
Xeranx wrote:
Antolicus wrote:
Oh yeah, and a simple request. If Razor Knucklers or something along that line are added in, I have no issue with them requiring a Master Level Cert or even something in the skill tree (like the scyth blade, etc), but, and this is going to sound weak, but can they not be a ultra-rate loot drop to make?
It's just something that the entire community would like to have and I don't see that it's something that would need to be ultra-rare for us to get. If it were introduced as something any weaponsmith could make (like Wookiee Armor for armorsmith) that would be segnificantly better (IMHO) than something that only can be made in the DWB by a group of 50 people.
Yeah, I know that I sound like I am whining, but it is going to be something that we all want, it would be nice to be something that we could get and not something we can just dream about.
You know if that were the case then pikemen, and all other melee professions that have weapons depending on loot would ask for the same.
no but swordman do have to do a quest for the scythe , also they have to loot the black sun Hackin the DWB , the power hammer is a standard weapon like the T21 , but i fell if we are getting the RK , we should not have to loot the AXkivn min for NS vibro motors , leave that to the pikeman for there lance , have us have to loot something else like the Singing mountain clan sisters they drop nothing really no point hunting them
Message Edited by comandobob on 08-25-2004 12:44 AM
Stealthshadow
Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:36 am
#59
Wow Ryutek is now our correspondant! What a great event that is! I have been lurking thru the the others since Jerhad and have not wanted to post due to the avalanche of trollers,nerf criers, whiners, etc. . I now feel i can come & start posting again since a competant TK is at the helm.
I have read portions of this thread and seen some really great input. I have a few initial ideas on damage that might make us unique to the other classes. I like the idea of not having VK's anymore as we are a UnArmed Class. My initial ideas to the damage types we should have at our disposal are : 1) Kinetic - Typical punching & kicking 2) Breakage - If we cant pound them into submission, then we have at least the ability to break a arm, leg, etc.3) Disruption - Thru a single or a series of well placed strike/strikes we can either imobilize a certain body part , freeze them in place, or send them to the ground in a quivering mass of flesh unable to do anything 4) Poison - Thru the use of shurikens & darts we can put a poison DoT on our victims.
This would give us a few different damage types & not nerf our class or trivialize other classes.
comandobob
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:38 pm
#60
Utess wrote:
Knocky wrote:
comandobob wrote:
Knocky wrote:
One of our state attacks is stun...so I see Stun damage is very reasonable.
it has being stated by the dev's that stun danamage was never ment to by that powerful , so i realy dont see why we would need stun , are blast are electrcity , if any thing energy are heat as we build both of these when we use are moves in any martial art
Are you saying that the Devs intended the Fencers to be a gimped profession from the start?
Also...the Devs also said that Jedi would be rare...
No lol. It is just the devs never intended stun damage to be *the* damage type for PvP play. They never anticipated we would make armor as good as we have. So, once they adjust armor as part of the CB, stun will be just as good as it always has been, but it won't be the only best choice.
What she said exactaly
comandobob
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:42 pm
#61
Grimror wrote:
FYI, fencers don't have to do a quest to get stun damage, swordsmen don't need to do a quest to get thier power hammer, etc. So his request isnt too much out of line....
Xeranx wrote:
Antolicus wrote:
Oh yeah, and a simple request. If Razor Knucklers or something along that line are added in, I have no issue with them requiring a Master Level Cert or even something in the skill tree (like the scyth blade, etc), but, and this is going to sound weak, but can they not be a ultra-rate loot drop to make?
It's just something that the entire community would like to have and I don't see that it's something that would need to be ultra-rare for us to get. If it were introduced as something any weaponsmith could make (like Wookiee Armor for armorsmith) that would be segnificantly better (IMHO) than something that only can be made in the DWB by a group of 50 people.
Yeah, I know that I sound like I am whining, but it is going to be something that we all want, it would be nice to be something that we could get and not something we can just dream about.
You know if that were the case then pikemen, and all other melee professions that have weapons depending on loot would ask for the same.
no but swordman do have to do a quest for the scythe , also they have to loot the black sun Hackin the DWB , the power hammer is a standard weapon like the T21 , but i fell if we are getting the RK , we should not have to loot the AXkivn min for NS vibro motors , leave that to the pikeman for there lance , have us have to loot something else like the Singing mountain clan sisters they drop nothing really no point hunting them
Message Edited by comandobob on 08-25-2004 12:44 AM
Taidashan
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:09 pm
#62
Stealthshadow wrote:
Wow Ryutek is now our correspondant! What a great event that is! I have been lurking thru the the others since Jerhad and have not wanted to post due to the avalanche of trollers,nerf criers, whiners, etc. . I now feel i can come & start posting again since a competant TK is at the helm.
I have read portions of this thread and seen some really great input. I have a few initial ideas on damage that might make us unique to the other classes. I like the idea of not having VK's anymore as we are a UnArmed Class. My initial ideas to the damage types we should have at our disposal are : 1) Kinetic - Typical punching & kicking 2) Breakage - If we cant pound them into submission, then we have at least the ability to break a arm, leg, etc.3) Disruption - Thru a single or a series of well placed strike/strikes we can either imobilize a certain body part , freeze them in place, or send them to the ground in a quivering mass of flesh unable to do anything 4) Poison - Thru the use of shurikens & darts we can put a poison DoT on our victims.
This would give us a few different damage types & not nerf our class or trivialize other classes.
Thank you of your support for removing vibro knucklers! However, your proposal has some flaws. Dont take it personally, I am not criticising your idea, but the optional damage types dont exist (except poison, which isnt a damage type). I dont know if the devs are prepared to create a whole new damage type just for one profession. Yea, it would be incredibly interesting to have unique damage types for every profession, but if that was the case, not only would there have to be new weapons, but armor too. All of the current armor would have to be either 1. modified or 2. chucked to make way of the new armor. Perhaps the ideas you are proposing dont have to be made an actual damage type, but moves. However, that is the only way i could see that happen.
Atama
Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:09 pm
#63
"I dont know if the devs are prepared to create a whole new damage type just for one profession."
Except Jedi.
Taidashan
Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:02 pm
#64
Touché
Atama wrote:
"I dont know if the devs are prepared to create a whole new damage type just for one profession."
Except Jedi.
tiberian_death
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:23 pm
#65
I love the two ideas and here is a little bit of feedback about it and why it seems it would more balance us then make us more powerful.
With theremoval of the VKs and giving TKA AP1 at novice and AP2 at Master would completely change up the game for many reasons. Now with VKs gone a few things would happen that would balance us more sothen with the current VK system in place:
1) Without VKs the grind would last a lot longer because we wouldn't have speed VKs to make us hit faster at the lower levels which I feel balances us more with professions length in grinding.
2) VKs increase our damage output a great deal because they naturally increase or damage output through min and max damage and also gives us AP1. With no VKs, AP1 at Novice TKA would only increase our damage output but wouldn't come close to matching the amount of damage we normally do with AP1 VKs but by giving Master AP2 that would bring us closer in line to the damage a Master TKA does with VKs right now. So anyone that is a TKA and not master would be a lot weaker then we currently are, only at Master would we finally reach the normal threat of damage output we currently are now. So TKA would become even longer to grind and not as much of a threat at the lower levels.
So this actually would balance our profession a lot more and we wouldn't be seen as such of an easy to master profession who can do ungodly damage at such low levels.
Now with the Quest the Devs can have it where it gives us a schematic at the end for an enhanced glove that we would put over our hands that does cold or heat or acid damage, heat and cold seem more realistic. Now to give the gloves a super natural ability to do heat or cold damage is that they require a damage force crystal of a certain type or better. Now the schematic would require both materials from a tailor and a WS and this would make sure that WS aren't cut out of the picture and would even add tailors into the mix. The manufacturing would lead to a glove that is lined with the force crystal and other materials and through the use of our inner force would the gloves be able to change to heat or cold damage.
Now to activate the gloves it requires us to meditate for a set amount of time, 2 minutes sounds good because anything more is too long and there are already too many things that take up our time in this game. Now to deactivate the gloves we would have to meditate again for another 2 minutes. We wouldn't be able to remove the gloves without first deactivating them so people wouldn't be able to jump from kinetic to heat or cold without some kind of downfall. The need to meditate to change the damage type would keep us balanced but at the same time allow us to get away from just doing kinetic damage. Now the gloves wouldn't increase or decrease our speed, or manipulate or damage amount. There would also be no change to HAM use because these would be nothing more then clothing lined with force crystals that we meditate to allow us to change damage type.
Message Edited by tiberian_death on 08-26-2004 03:26 PM