Teras Kasi Archive

a novice smuggler w/ dirty fighting3 can kd a tk at 64m...and if a tk is gettin kd'd long range, go get some more def v kd mods fgs.

lower ham costs.

ham costs are outrages! even for a wookie with 750/1000/1000 (or 1250/1500/1500 with powerboost) with max secondaries in both action and mind!

I am kind of on a soapbox kick right now regarding this. I love being a TKA and feel it is one of the few professions right now that works well. Fixing the current skills that aren't working right, providing different types of damage weapons, and providing a means that would help us from being kited are on my top list but the number 1 issue that I feel that is still being ignored is:

Other players will not consider TKA's good tanks until the Mind Pool can be healed.

It is for that one reason pets are still the prefered tank in this game. If nothing else, provide TKA's and other melee types a new skill that would allow us to channel some of our Health or Action Pool into our Mind Pool - then a medic can heal us and we can continue to tank while the group beats down the poor creature. And I still like the idea of Dancers and Musicians (not a plain Entertainer) having a new skill that allows them to heal Mind while a person is in combat outside of an entertainment zone.

As to kiting, a "freezeBlood" skill that reduces the speed of the person by x amount for y amount of time and has a range of 64m would be my solution. 10% speed and 30 sec time would be my suggestions for x and y. It still has a chance of being resisted, it won't help that much against mobs so it is a PvP oriented skill, and it doesn't nerf other classes such as reducing the speed of a person running and shooting backwards (which is the only way I manage to kill anything when using my Pistols). We also have to remember the otherside of the coin. Ranged weapon people have to run from us since they would get a quick beat down... they just don't measure up to a good TKA.

Heavy,

One solution that's been proposed a number of times by various professions to help stop kiting is a /stick command. This command is similar to /follow but instead of just setting your velocity to the person your followings velocity it increments your velocity until you hit your maximum running velocity (I.E. if you had burst run on you'd be running that fast as you "stick" to the player). Once your in range of the opponent /stick keeps you there using this method until your attacker is either dead or you are dead. This command requires a little bit of effort on the developers part becuase it requires that both the attacker and the TKA's positions are updated on the server more often durring combat when the /stick command is used. If the developers want to see an implementation of this command they should check out "dark ages of camelot".

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I wish our regular attacks did stun damage, and the VKs did kinetic.

-Jeff

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That would be outstanding.

It'd allow for diversity, a reason to use VKs sometimes and sometimes not, and it would mean that unarmed non-TKAs would have the appropriate amount of trouble hurting things that can't easily be stunned.

Above all, it'd mean that we could lower the damage of VKs as well as the HAM costs and very few people would complain. Honestly, the only reason I use VKs is for the armor penetration.

I'd be thrilled if this were the setup:

• Unarmed 1 -- no certification (everyone's Unarmed damage does Stun and has a Speed of 2)


• Unarmed 2 --brass knuckles (damage type is still Stun and AR 0, but Damage is 20-ish and Speed is 4, 10/20/10 HAM)


• Unarmed 3 -- no certifcation.


• Unarmed 4 -- "alpha" vibroknuckles (changes damage type to Kinetic, AR 1, Damage 20-ish, Speed 4, 10/20/10 HAM) .... this would help the slow grind up to TKA without making it a "gimme"


• Power 1 -- "alpha" laserknuckles (changes damage type toEnergy AR 0, Damage 40-ish, Speed 4, 10/20/10 HAM)


• Balance 1 -- steel knuckles (Stun, AR 1, Damage 40-ish, Speed 3, 20/40/20 HAM)


• Power 2 -- "alpha" electroknuckles (changes damage type to Electrical, AR 0, Damage 40-ish, Speed 4, 10/20/10 HAM)


• Balance 3 -- titanium knuckles(Stun, AR 2, Damage 50-ish, Speed 3, 20/40/20 HAM)


• Power 3 -- "beta" laserknuckles (Energy, AR 1, Damage 60-ish, Speed 3, 20/40/20 HAM)


• Precision3 -- "beta" vibroknuckles (Kinetic, AR 2, Damage 50-ish, Speed 3, 20/40/20 HAM)


• Power 4 -- "beta" electroknuckles (Electrical, AR 0, Damage 80-ish, Speed 3, 20/40/20 HAM)


• Master -- "gamma" laserknuckles (Energy, AR 2, Damage 100-ish, Speed 3, 30/50/30 HAM)

Basically, I'm outlining a way for TKAs to do Stun, Kinetic, Energy, and Electrical damage and have some armor-penetrating capacity. The individual numbers are just guesstimations on my part and obviously more hard data would need to be plugged in to get solid stats on the 4 weapons (and their two or three grades).

The damage on our weapons don't need to be high (and therefore neither do the HAM costs), since we're the only class that gets damage boosts as part of a skill track. We just need AR capacity and diverse damage types.

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Mister_Heavy wrote:

A related problem is the lack of weapon power-ups for melee.

Huh? I use power-ups on my VK all the time... primarily spd and damage ones although that combo is hard to find and maybe that is what you mean by a lack... namely artisans don't know that melee people want powerups so they don't make them????

Anyway, I know on Bria they are available, especially at a couple vendors near Moenia and I never leave home without a couple crates of powerups.

Note: Partly moved from the "Gameplay Issues" thread.

Points:

• I’d like the use of vibro knucklers to be far more token. With them equipped you would not be able to perform any sort of defensive manoeuvres ("Centre of being" etc.) Such an implementation would drastically effect the use of this foolish device. As it stands, anyone who refuses to use a vibro knuckler is at a severe disadvantage when in fact they are being true to the Teras Kasi profession in its essence. Much like the "Berserk" command, the difference being that you can toggle vibro knucklers off and on at your will and can perform stronger special moves albeit at a far greater cost to being unarmed.

• I would like to see the ability to make an opponent bleed however, not through a single technique. I propose that through extended combat, if an opponent is heavily wounded in one particular pool, you could cut them via a “Precision Striking” technique. Since it’s hard to deeply cut someone with your bare hands I think it’s only right that an opponent could be made to bleed only by being intensely pummelled in a particular spot. If you’re wielding vibro knucklers and perform an attack with your hands then this too should provide an opportunity to make your opponent bleed.

• Unarmed Leg Hit1” via the “Precision Striking” branch should have the chance to lower your opponents posture due the damage you inflict to your opponents obvious balancing appendages.

• If your opponent is kneeling, “Unarmed Head Hit1” should have the chance to knock your opponent over.

• “Unamed Lunge 1” should be reanimated to depict a flying kick to facilitate the application of the technique. You’re supposed to travel some distance and attack an opponent. Thus posture change should be removed as Teras Kasi already possess knockdown techniques which are superior to simply pinning your opponent.

• Like the Pistoleer profession, Teras Kasi should have a “Disarm” technique to combat weapon users at close range.

• "Unarmed Hit3" should pierce medium armour, reflecting the steel hands notion behind the art. The fact that it's a master skill and the HAM costs involved should detract from abuse.

Game mechanic idea:

In context with the continuity, Teras Kasi should have some affinity with the Force: How about if one receives "Sense" and "Force fortitude" mods via the "Meditation" and "Balance Conditioning" branches respectively so that, if you were to become a "Teras Kasi Master", you'd receive only half the damage of any Force attack directed at your person via the total amount of mods. The "Sense" mod would come into play with the "Sense Force" command.

At the top of the "Meditation" branch, "Sense Force" would allow a Teras Kasi exponent to scan their environment for Force sensitive individuals via the meditation stance. A Teras Kasi Master would have far greater range and success at feeling out Force sensitive individuals, naturally. It's a fundamental part of the Teras Kasi art that all exponents should aspire to do, in keeping with the continuity.

The mechanics of "Sense Force" could work just like the treasure map disks that you can find as loot on NPCs: A successful "Sense" would hint at a direction, but not an actual waypoint. Once you felt you were close enough to where you sensed the presence, you'd repeat the process and so forth. Of course, there's nothing stopping the Force sensitive individual from moving, and this allows the command to be fair towards the potential target.

A single exponent would most probably be led on a wild goose chase, if they're lucky enough to feel a single presence at all. While a group of Teras Kasi could coordinate their search becoming far more effective. A Force sensitive with a band of Teras Kasi Masters hot on its trail would have to be cautious.

OK. I'm going to take a shot at compiling the issues we have here.

I've left outa couple of things and I wanted to give you an explanation up front as to why. If you guys feel I'm wrong here, just let me know. The things I'm currently leaving out are:

1. Out of range: I know they're working on a fix for this, so there is no need to bring this to their attention. They know how important it is to us, and telling them again will only cause them to skip the point and cause our other points to have a lower impact.


2. Tanking: You guys all know about the CenterofBeing skill on TC now. Until that hits live and we get achance to test it as a group, we have no real reason to bring this up.

Now that that's out of the way, here's what I've gathered from the above posts (and from the last top5) are our most important issues.

1. Ineffective specials:




• Combo 1 and 2 are still useless skills. There is no reason that anyone would want to spread their damage over multiple pools. One suggestion is to have these skills apply multiple debuffs to the target in a single attack. Blind/Stun for example. The combo attacks should have a better chance of "sticking" the special than you get with the unarmed brawler skills.


• Body Hit and Leg hit don't do enough damage to be worth using at the level they are received. They need to have their damage multiplier increased


• Unarmed Hit 3 uses too much HAM for the damage it does. The general consensus is that UH2 is a better skill overall due to the efficiency. Suggest reducing the HAM cost for UH3.


• FoW as it is on TC is not a satisfactory change. We have a separate thread on the issue and have a detailed, concrete recommendation for where the skill needs to go.


• There are reports of our (TKA) knockdowns not working often enough compared to ranged KDs. Melee knockdowns of all types should be the most powerful KDs in the game.


2. Limited weapon selection:




• The primary problem here is that kinetic damage is our only option. We need to be able to deal with a greater variety of creatures/resists. Suggestions include a cold damage weapon, heat damage weapon, stun gauntlets, etc.


• Another problem created by the lack of weapon choices is that unarmed brawlers working towards TKN have a really rough time. They should get some options like brass knuckles, combat gloves, etc.


3. Kiting




• Many of us still feel helpless trying to use melee skills in PvP. We recognize that ranged attacks have an inherent advantage, but we would like some way of catching up to a kiter.Perhaps a mini burst run skill that we could use for ashort burst of speed would help. This would of courseneed to be balanced. We don't want it to be easy tocatch a kiter, just possible. You could balance the skill with HAM costs/timers/footspeed. Of course, this skill, whatever it may be, should be given to all brawlers.


4. Lack of truly high-end VKs




• A related problem is the lack of weapon power-ups for melee. Rancor teath replace as opposed to augment a critical part of the VK. Rancor teeth seem to be the VK version of Kryat tissues, so either rancor teeth need to be seriously buffed in terms of the bonuses they give, or they need to be made an optional component in the VK schematic, instead of a replacement part. Is there any way to get an "uber" VK, similar to the 700 dmg 0.3 speed FWG5 everyone is talking about?


5. HAM Regen while Meditating




• We would like some modest boost to HAM regen while in meditation. One suggestion would be to add our meditation score to our regen stats while meditating. The boost would be modest, but would help the med line be more appealing.

Regarding #3, I think it's really important that we don't ask for a nerf to other professions. There was a huge outcry when they made shooting while running less accurate, and a nerf-calling war is always a dangerous thing to start, especially as we become more powerful. I'd advise against us asking the Devs to make all ranged professions slower while carrying a gun, and instead, go the route that some of you have mentioned by giving all brawlers a little boost of speed. Consider:

Charge - Granted at the Novice level of each elite brawling profession: Charge allows the brawler to put on a short burst of speed in order to deliver an attack to a retreating enemy. Charge adds a 100% bonus to base run speed forX seconds, after which the character's run speed is halved forX seconds as they recover.

The mainidea is that if you can catch the target, you can kill the target. It should have a low enough duration (5 seconds?)and high enough HAM cost (similar to burst run?)to be a risky manuver, however, it seems to be fair in concept. Ranged fighters all have skills that can create distance by delaying, posture changing or knocking down a target. It seems like brawlers should have something to counter that.

Whew. Ok guys, tell me how I did and if I missed anything.

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Olvenskol wrote:

Something that gives TK's a chance against kiters in PvP. Whether that is the ability to attack while running, a /stick command, slightly faster run speed, whatever. I don't want to win all the time here, but I would like to have a chance if I can catch my target of being able to do something.

My ideal solution here is to have a slightly reduced run speed while attacking with ranged weapons. This is simply a realism solution: if I am running full bore to catch you and you are running looking backwards try to shoot at me, who will run faster? Obviously I will, and the reason is that you have to run slower simply to avoid falling down. This would also have the effect of reducing kiting against normal-speed creatures (which, again, is realistic, but may not be what the devs want).

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So what you want is to be able to kill a gunman no matter what? Kiting is their ONLY deffence, everyone wielding a gun has a penalty for being hit by a meleer, that's our benifit from fighting them, if we get some sticky move of they move slower while shooting then they will have to have the melee mod completely removed....it would be a joke to have a commando move at like 1/3 the speed of a meleer and get slaughtered in 2 hits.....I don't understand why none of you can understand that you're not supposed to bring a knife to a gunfight, we're not supposed to beat a gunman at range.

I do not see the need for new measures to stop kiters at all. Anyone running after a kiter while out in the fields deserves death - we are not dumb animals mindlessly charging an enemy that can outrun us while killing us from afar.

There are several ways to counter kiting:

Don't run after him, run away, and live to fight another day.With the newcode that disallows shooting through hills on TC any TKA should be able to avoid ranged fire and escape. It escapes me why I should try to run down a running pistoleer if I can run away instead, fighting on a ground of my own choosing should he pursue.

Burst run and unarmed lunge 1. You have a chance. It may be a small chance, but have one - and it is a bigger chance than a ranged user has in melee against us.

Take up some ranged skills and shoot back. Posture-changing Suppression Fire can be had at ranged support 4. Smuggler's dirty fghting line can serve you well as well - with pistol 1-4 easy to get, and unarmed already mastered TKAs have aquickpath to smuggler.

Stop trying to make TKA the be-all-end-all profession - we have over 150 more skill points to spend to counter the weaknesses of a TKA.

I doubt that many people are shortsighted enough to want TKA to be the "end all, be all" class.

I was recently on the Marksman board, and in their "State of the Class" post it was listed that Marksmen feel slighted that Brawlers get all these cool abilities that they don't. I found that pretty darn ironic.

TKA do in fact get neat abilities (most of which are on the Meditation track); but the thing is, a newbie with a CDEF can eventually kill us in a one-on-one fight. My character might be able to initiate solar eclipses at the drop of a hat, but I'm still completely outclassed by Marksmen.

In fact, all my cool melee whup-ash is utterly negated just because the other guy is running around. The damage multipliers we get oncarbine and rifle users is ultimately meaningless.It doesn't matter if an elite Brawler can one-shot-kill anyone with a gun if we can almost never, everhit them.

This is an old gripe. An ancient gripe. Personally, I feel ashamed every time I bring it up because at this point it's a "duh" issue with the Brawlers and a "nyah nyah" issue with the Marksmen.

In fact, the Marksman solution to our ineffectiveness is either:

1. Spend the skill points to use a gun, or


2. Don't even bother fighting back.

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I submit that option #1 makes any Elite Melee class even more point-expensive than the Bounty Hunter class. Basically that suggestion boils down to "If you're going melee, then you have to adopt a gun-based class as well."

A lot of folks have done this, too. Commando/TKA is becoming more and more popular. Rifleman/Elite-Brawler covers the bases of max-range combat as well as close-range. Pistoleer/TKA means that you basically own a ten meter radius around your body.

This means, though, that anyone dreaming of a Pikeman/Weaponsmith or a Fencer/Dancer (or in my case, TKA/Ranger) is doing just that: dreaming. We will get owned, and we will get owned because we're so "shortsighted" as to not be dabblers.

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I think we can all agree that option #2 is nothing but a source of outrage for PvP Brawlers and relief for PvP Marksmen.

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Therefore: if the solution to our biggest mechanical problem is to simply not play a Brawler class, I suggest that we have a very valid balance issue. It's an issue that's been around for months and months, and I have to say that I have my doubts about the current defensive upgrades helping out.

I mean, even if it means a(n Elite)Marksman's chance of hitting a moving (Elite) Brawler has dropped from 30% to 10%, we're still looking at a high likelihood that the Brawler will continue to be whittled away.

This is me, officially shaking my tired fist.

Mister-Heavy, first of all I want to say congrats on getting the job. Your doing a great job so far, keep it up.

Now that that is out of the way, I want to say that I hate the idea of us having different damage types. I think that given the huge amount of damage that we can do (and more to come) and with the speed that we can do it in, different damage types are mostly unneeded. I think that having only one type of damage should be the handicap of our profession (as far as balance towards other melees goes). That way, we can stay on top of the damage/speed ladder, but have the handicap of only doing one type of damage and being limited to AP1.

1) out of range problem

2) faster runing speed then someone runing with a gun looking backward. ( beside we suppoed to be better shape then someone who uses a gun)

3) advantages to make geting master something to be proud off ( longer duration on power boost )

4) remove cap on speed ( currently it is at 1.0)

5) add ability to make customizable VK's ( poison , desease, extra fire or what ever dmg of course certain rare items needed to make such a VK)

all i can think of right now

cheers