Teras Kasi Archive

This hurts all melee equally, so quit thinking so TKA centric dude. Fencers/Swords use lunge/dizzy strategies, which are also being affected. Polearm has KDs as do TKAs.

you guys should have known they were going to overdo this, i mean cmon, look at their track record. KD going from like 30 to 700 HAM??? DUH! you should have known they were gonna be like,"ok... a 10 second timer is the reasonable thing to do, lets make it 30 seconds cause we hate it when people actually have fun!" Devs..... i have come to the subtle conclusion in the last 2 weeks that you have no clue what you are doing as far as being fair and balancing things goes..... this effect all classes sure.... but one again, ranged has the advantage, as they can now just knock us down, and then target one HAM pool and get the job done just the same.....

My ISP sparked out yesterday, so i haven't been able to reply. But here's what I'm thinking:

There are a few main problems I'm seeing with this, especially how it affects melee(TKA being my specialty, so I'll talk about that).

1) The KD affecting the VICTIM: I don't think you guys realise how big of a point this is, since no one has commented on it. I basically HAVE to KD my opponent to finish them off. But what if before I get there, some BH throws a KD at him, then he gets up and walks away. I'm out to dry for 30 seconds, without the advantage that being in close range against an immobile opponent gives me(a NECESSARY advantage).

2) The timer affecting all posture moves: Every good TKA knows that KD won't get you far in PvP by itself, and that it requires a good relationship with LUNGE. TKA's will never get close enough to KD without lunge, and TKAs will never lunge without being able to follow up with a KD.

The above should really be justification for some scaling of the KD timer towards TKAs/melee. If Holocron ever gets around to visiting the TKA forum, I hope he reads this and reconsiders his proposal.

i really think it's too early to jump on board the "death of melee" bandwagon just yet. In fact, I think the Devs are doing the right thing by testing out the 30 sec. timer first, and then adjusting as necessary. KD has been a virtual invincibillity button in PvE, and obviously it needs to be rebalanced. Yes, being able to solo hard creatures is fun, and yes it sucks that we've grown so reliant on KDin PvE combat, BUT this is a necessary adjustment for the future layout of the game. In all likelihood the 30 second timer delay will not stick, and something in the 20-25 sec range will probably replace it, but a timer seems to be the only logical way that this move can't be abused. We will probably see increased defense and offensive capabillities in order to counter-balance that change somewhere down the line, once it's established how effective/ineffective that change is.

As it stands when successfully used, KD renders us temporarily invincible for 15 secs, which is 15 secs of free hits...if you hit KD again at the 14 sec mark, you get another 15 secs of free hits, and so on. Even with the increased HAM costs that are currently associated with KD, it's still easy to pull off if you migrate a ton of points into Mind.

HAM points aren't the logical solution because a) it hurts us and b) still doesn't completely eliminate abuse.

A timer, however, will effectively prevent abuse. Solo'ing high end Mob's will be much more difficult, but grouped with a couple TKA's, still possible.

If you keep hoping that things are going to go back to the way they were, then you are going to be very disappointed in this game. If, however, you accept that more and more changes are going to be implemented over the next couple months in order to bring balance, which is what we've all been demanding since day 1, then you may at least attempt to enjoy your gaming experience. yes, there will be mistakes along the way, and changes that will probably upset you until they are changed again. If you aren't having a good time, stop playing for a couple months, take a break. You'll save yourselves a lot of heartache and stress. I think most of us were aware from former Beta testers and whatnot, that this game was no where near ready to be released; i was skeptical at first, but considering the enormous amount of changes, bugs, rebalancing, and even outright overhauls of some professions, I'm also convinced that this game is still in a Beta type enviroment - except we're paying for it. Regardless, i'm still having a good time.

Peace and Prosperity

D'Shan Kaen

I'm retracting my statement about it being easy to use kd in groups, I just read in the Dev Tracker that KD timer will be relative to the target, so basically the target can only be KD every 30 secs. As a positive note if you find yourself in a pickle where multiple targets are attacking you, you'll still be able to kd everyone of them at a reduced HAM cost.

going to suck posture change not going to work in pvp. Only way to stop people is to put them in prone if you put them kneel they just move and get back up.

30 sec timer? Thats insane. I wont be able to fight anything. Well diseased krevols are still blue, but they give 150 exp. What in the world are those guys thinking?

30 second timer will kill pvp for melee vs ranged. how do you plan on keeping the enemy still to hit them? that just means you lost your tool to hold a ranged user still, but they can still kite you everyday and twice on sundays. and how do you prone someone out with lunge if you can only use it once per 30 seconds?? are these ideas ever TESTED before tehy're spouted??

Now consider the 30 second timer. Again, terrible for a TKA because if it fails, we are screwed, even against white con mobs. Again, not so bad for a ranged user because they can run away and kite until they can use it again.

The problem here is that the developers didn't give us anything but surface information on an idea they are going to implement. We don't know how much more dammage KD will do because they didn't give us any numbers. We don't know if the 30 second timer will be enabled if your KD fails or if the timer doesn't take "failed" attempts into account. We don't know how much of a help the defense while moving and the negative modifiers added to people who run and gun are going to help. We just don't have the answers to these questions yet. Which is why I'm still waiting to either see numbers or for this to go up on Test Center so I can see for myself how things work.

Also be leary of what you ask for. I'm assuming the 30 second delay on knockdown is calculated so that you get your 15 seconds of "free hits" on an enemy before they begin to fight back, from that point on they get 15 seconds to attack or run away before you can use KD again. Lowering the 30 second delay to 15 seconds will get the time we have for "free hits" (IE hits with no reprecussions)reduced. I do believe the time needs to be reduced, I personally think a PvP player only needs at most between 5-10 seconds to run away from a melee character so I'd prefer that the timer limit was reduced to around 20-25 seconds instead of 30.

From a PvE aspect we get 15 seconds to preform "specials" on our opponents...in the last few seconds we can get off other moves such as blind, dizzy, intimidate,stun and beserk. While it's no means near as effective as spaming Knockdown was we still havebetter odds at winning a fight than the other guy we are preforming these attacks on at leastin the 30 second time frame. And with all our HAM costs being reduced for our specials it'll be more likely we can use a bunch of moves in a fight instead of doing KD repeatedly.

Like I said before I want to see how it all mesh's togeather before I assemble a yes or no opinion on the subject. However I'm willing to give this change a chance on Test Center, and see how all of the proposed changes to all of the classes as well as ours balance out in both PvP and PvE.

I do think this is a step in the right direction for our class because we shouldn't be using a defensive move like knockdown as an offensive tool totake on red cons.I also think that 30 seconds is too long to wait for a KD recharge, however I'm not sure I'd be willing to reduce the "free hit" time in PvE in order tolower the KD's recharge timer to 15 seconds. It's all a balancing act now so if they reduce the time it takes to recharge they'll have to increase costs elsewhere. So like I've said before lets wait till this change makes it to Test Center where we can get some numbers, and see where we fall in line with the rest of the professions in PvE and PvP. After that we can complain all we like and have some valid data to back up our statements if the change hurts us alot. Until then we are running on assumption and fear of what might happen to our profession.

A timer on KD will hurt melee classes more than ranged classes and it will hurt TKA the most.

Lets disuss pve only, 'cause Holo said, classes will be balanced against this:

Ranged classes have (for pve):
- ranged KD (all besides riflemen)
- warning shot
- some other posture changes
- bleed

So the 30 second timer wont hurt them much, because a viable tactic would be:
- stick bleed on the mob
- use KD
- shoot, shoot, get distance, wait till KD wears off
- spam warning shot till you have the timer again and kite the mob
during this, mob is constantly damaged by bleed!

What do we have ?

- no bleed for continuous damage
- KD as only choice for *damage prevention*
- no chance to play the kiting game

Please reconsider the 30 second timer, it will be seriously change the game !

- Reduce Damage for KD
- Reduce HAM costs for KD
- Make resists for posture changes work and give melees the highest (best: give masters of elite melee professions a bonus)
- Make ranged attackers move slower AND hit less IF holding a ranged weapon

just my thoughts ...

your missing the bigger picture.. what about when we fight fencers and swordsmen and pikemen?.. have you seen the damage a two handed sword master can do?

timer would be fine, they just need to A) give kd lunge range; and B) make the freaking knockdown LAST FOR THE FULL STATE EFFECT.

what does that mean? you know something stands up immediately but can't perform any action but run away for another 9-10 seconds... originally they were supposed to be immobile on ground for the 9-10 seconds, giving youbetter damage and keeping your opponent from moving. this would be great for us, if we get those few seconds we can definitely administer the beat-down. as for ranged users, they would be shooting you whether you're running or knocked down for 9-10s, so not a real big advantage there.

The simple fact is if you want to be good at one form of combat you have to use skill points. Get master brawler and then with TKA if things stick (like not resisted)..you can do a fight without getting hit..1 vs 1 of course.

30 sec timer is perfect. Esp for one of the reason mentioned above that most fights are over in 30-45sec. Posture change should be done once / fight.

This game is character skill based, so outcome should be based on that....not who gets the first KD off (that was daoc and its stun/mez combo..)