Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A few more tidbits for you
silversaber wrote:
I disagree with all of this.
Melee should not be in this game at all except for Jedi, much less be viable against ranged.
Gongrats on making this game closer to EQ/UO.
Melee should totally be in this game, and i'm glad it is--Emperor's guard's? meleers (that reminds me, all melee classes should get something that does stun damage)...Jabba's little Gamorean pigs? meleers
not every Star Wars weapon is a blaster or a lightsaber...
and, getting off of Star Wars, this is also a MMORPG...since when i selected brawler as my starting proffession there was no disclaimer that said "This class has no endgame, as it cannot pvp or fight in exciting high lvl pve battles against jedi or krayts," we have every right to be competitive
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
You use Lunge on Mark for 6 points of damage!
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
You have been incapacitated by Mark.
You have been slain by Mark. Requesting clone activation...
Give me a break, high damage and active defenses will do nothing to fix this.
Toxotes wrote:
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
You use Lunge on Mark for 6 points of damage!
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
Your attack failed to change your target's posture.
That target is out of range.
That target is out of range.
You have been incapacitated by Mark.
You have been slain by Mark. Requesting clone activation...
Give me a break, high damage and active defenses will do nothing to fix this.
if we all put
MAKE MELEES /STICKY
in our sigs maybe someone will get a clue
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MrKracs wrote:
Pretty funny comment when ranged are king in EQ as well.
Sorry, even Anarchy Online saw the need for melee chars being viable character classes. There's just not enough variety in ranged only classes to make any MMORPG successful (especially based around humanoid lifeforms) bar spaceship focused games, though even Earth & Beyond has its tanking class the Progen Warrior.
Melee brings a whole new dynamic to the battlefield, makes things a little more interesting for PvP, which is by the way the entire end-game of SWG for combat classes. Almost no one (there will always be extremists) has ever said we should own in ranged combat, we've always admitted we should get pwned at a distance and we do. One of the reasons I took up pistoleer was so I could complement my melee skills with ranged.
Completely removing the effectiveness of melee chars (I gather that's what you would like to see) would kill PvP for this game. You'd end up with a group of Bounty Hunter or Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman Doctors. Though this would help make your idea of a Star Warsy game, how much gameplay are you willing to sacrifice for this belief?
IMO I see no problems with melee being viable (prolly a little biased ) in a Starwars game (outside of Jedi/Sith). The game is still dominated by ranged and it will continue to be, you'll still have your large scale blaster fire battles, but having melee there as well will make people have to define and refine their strategies just a little more. They can't just blatently run into an enemy unit, running and gunning, without 1st worrying whether there are skill close-quarter fighters amongst them.
The only way I could ever see a ranged only starwars game would be one based around something like Planetside. A FPS where it actually requires skill to take down an opponent at ranged instead of simply targetting and attacking, and yes, then Jedi would be the only viable melee (though he thinks back to his knife kills in Counterstrike).
This is all just my opinion of course, you have yours, others will have theres. I just can't see myself playing this game though if melee were gimped or removed, not because I would only play a melee (my other character IS ranged only), but because the lack of variety and strategy would make this game no longer enjoyable to play.
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A good reply.
I remember a long time ago, while they were rebalancing the classes in EQ, Absor clearly stated that all damage was balanced with Melee damage as a baseline. In EQ, Melee damage is king, and all else balanced accordingly. I remember this because I had a Wizard as my Main char at the time. It pissed me iff so badly I dropped my wizzie as my main and leveled up a Rogue as my main char.
Now, when SWG was announced, I was ecstatic that I could finally play out my dream of a Blaster touting Smuggle that lived on the edge, dodging the Empire and delivering vital supplies to the Rebellion to help ensure its success.
I remember seeing the words on the back of the box, "Immerse yourself in Star Wars like you have never before!" and get very excited to play the game.
Now, I see that the Devs have carried over the Melee classes from the Fantasy MMORPGS and think, oh no not again! This is Starwars? This is the hugeBlaster fights that lit my immagination in the movies?
When I initiate battle with a humanoid NPC, 2 out of 3 times its some stupid yahoo running at me with some staff or plane sword retaliating back, runningdirectly into my blaster bolts! I dont know about anyone else, but that is not Starwars! That kills ALL immersiion!I see people leading Rancors and worse all over the City and into hospitals and spaceports. W.T.F?
I hear your arguement for gameplay, and understand it to a point.
Buttoowhat point do we make these immersion shatteringconcessions in the name of gameplay, is it no longer Starwars?
I hardly see ANY droids around, vicious monsters following people dociley around in Cities, Players CHARGING other players with blasters...
I am sorry, but im afraid that the box has lied to me.
Fencer weapons suck and Target is still out of range, need I say more?
Gamzek
Master Fencer
Master Brawler
Master CH
I would very much like to hear a comment about the damned kiting.
Tonight:
My TK could not defeat blue conned mobs because they run the instant I chase them. Yet my noob with marksman | carbine 3, could easily defeat the same mob (even though it conned white.)
**edit**?
. The defensive ability is the most welcome news for me.
The simple problem with "Target is out of range" is Combat Equilibrium, this is suppose to make your recovery from kd such moves quicker, I.E. you get up faster.
BUT. It appears EVERYONE can get up as soon as they are lunge/kd'd in PVP even without being a melee-er with this mod. Now if you made KD moves and such in PVP take longer to stand up from with modifiers to lower the time required to get up from a KD coming from Combat Equilibrium youll have fxied the problem.
How? Well only melee's get this mod. Melees arent going to kite other melees so them being able to get up from a KD is a vital thing. Now since ranged wouldnt have this mod we'd have a significant advantage with such a move, and we'd be able to actually close in on them with the moves, pending you get the equation right for how long it should take for said target to get up in general and then how much its modified by the Combat Equilibrium mod.
Yes, I just solved the target out of range issue. But will Holo respond to it? Well with my track record he never has, and I doubt he will this time. So if you all agree, make redundant posts with exactly what I just said, he's bound to respond to one of us
Oh and a clear cut example of what I'm trying to say:
PVP: When KDing any target it will take 5 seconds for them to stand up (same as in PVE), this 5 seconds is modified by Combat Equilibrium stat. So say you have 50 combat equib and you make each + = 1% thats 50% therefore the person with +50 Combat equib would get up in 2.5 seconds as opposed to 5. Since the ranged guys dont have this mod they would always be at 5, and there would only be a variable difference in how fast melee's get up when fighting each other which provides whole new incentives for taking any such melee class and provides new advantages and disadvantages for combat between the other melee classes. (I will repost this in another thread so it will perhaps garner more attention)
silversabre
When I initiate battle with a humanoid NPC, 2 out of 3 times its some stupid yahoo running at me with some staff or plane sword retaliating back, running directly into my blaster bolts! I dont know about anyone else, but that is not Starwars! That kills ALL immersiion! I see people leading Rancors and worse all over the City and into hospitals and spaceports. W.T.F?
I hear your arguement for gameplay, and understand it to a point.
But too what point do we make these immersion shattering concessions in the name of gameplay, is it no longer Starwars?
I hardly see ANY droids around, vicious monsters following people dociley around in Cities, Players CHARGING other players with blasters...
I am sorry, but im afraid that the box has lied to me.
Actually I agree with pretty much everything you said there. Maybe its not the gameplay, but the content that is lacking for SWG (/blinks blankly at his last sentence). Yeah, I find it a bit weird that a large number ofNPCs in the game charge me in melee when they're armed with some form of blaster. Thats more in line with weird creature AI though, you'd think an NPC would switch to melee only if they were primarily a melee fighter or if a melee fighter had forced them to.
The thing about them running straight into your blaster bolts, well, I think thats more an issue with the game being a RPG and not an FPS. In a FPS a player or NPC would suffer the consequences of running head long into a gun, but it also requires a certain amount of skill to take down a running opponent. But RPGs have large stat pools and designed around the fact that it doesn't require much skill to target someone and press attack, but instead around the strategy you use to take the target down.
The comment about the rancor I'm in two minds about however. Throughout the Starwars movies large creatures (espeacially on Tatooine and Naboo) have been part of the atmosphere. Yeah, lots of Rancor roaming around is a bit over the top, but with the small number of active cities (where players congregate) you're bound to get a much denser population of extreme professions. In the Starwars movies you wouldn't have like 1 in every 6 characters being a creature handler, but you will in a Starwars game.
As for them being in cantinas and med centres, well, thats more of a roleplaying issue. You'll always have the roleplayers, casual gamers, power gamers and the L337 players in games like this. All 3 of the later groups (espeacially the L337z) will have varying degrees of the "couldn't care less" attitude toward roleplaying. Some won't care about popping out a rancor (worse still an AT-ST) in the middle of a med centre, but it can be amuzing listening to the comments of those who garner more toward the roleplaying side of things (i.e. the old, "get that thing outta here, now!!!!").
As for the droid thing, yes, I completely agree that droids play far too small a role in this game. It would of been absolutely awesome if they had made player character droids. Just the emmersion level of having intelligent acting (well most people I have come across in game are 
) droids running around would of been worth it.
The charging other players with blasters comment also highlights another big shortcoming in the game, that is the lack of terrain based strategy. Currently only towns offer even a slight inkling at this, and that is that the walls of buildings actually block off line of sight. Problem is, this doesn't happen out of cities as people can shoot straigth through hillside and rocks. Also theres no benefit for using "actual" cover. Be great to get cover when kneeling behind a rock, or shooting from a doorway. I'd say the coding for such issues would be fairly hard for a game like SWG as games that do support this (i.e. FPS) have less variables to worry about.