Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A Comparison Of Melee Professions
VikaLine
Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:33 pm
#14
You know im about tired of this endless debate of TK is gods and were golden the simple fact is not all classes are equal. Is that fair no but neither is life or this game so get over it, the fact is a Hvy Swordsman is in my opinion a PvE template they can take on things no other melee can even dream about and do it faster than others. In pvp your not goin to be as fast as a TKM but either is a Pikeman, if you wanted to be as fast be a Fencer as a former Master Fencer I promise you they are as fast and hit harder than a TK in pvp.. with a 329 damage gaffi I consistenly 1 shot guys in pvp, my avg 1 hand hit 3 was 1200 to 1300, my best Unarmed3 is 800's. The only reason I am a TKM / Doctor is b/c I missed my KD moves when people would run and dropped Fencer to go back to TKM.
tometaophion
Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:24 pm
#15
I see, so that is why everyone is a TKA? That is why the devs response to your complaints being "you are already too powerful?"
hmmmm
Elan-Morin
Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:29 pm
#16
oliphontmon wrote:fencer has no stun? how about a weapon that does nothing but stun dmg, and again, swordsman have ap2 weapons one of them deals blast dmg, ive seen swordsman take out atsts, i really doubt youll find a tkm that can do that with his fists or a knuckler.and crazy aoe attacks, get a clue.id much rather have ap2 and a stun weapon to deal stun dmg, not some stupid state effect that sticks for 10seconds.
You're confusing damage types with state effects. The stun baton does not confer a stun effect on a successful hit; it's just stun damage, which goes right through armor that doesn't have stun resist.
Sure, swordsmen have tons of AoE attacks, but they all do the same thing. Quite useful, wot?
You're underestimating the power of state effects. I'm sorry you don't know how to play your class. Experiment with stun, blind, dizzy, and intimidate. They will make you happy. Happy is good.
95M3
Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:30 pm
#17
Please take your bleed NERF issues to your own boards so your correspondant can bring it up with the Dev's. TKA's did not NERF bleeds, the Dev's did so go complain to them not us.
I am a Fencer as well and with a good Gaffi I can do more damage than with my knucks. So I dont know what all this Uber (German for super?) damage talk comes from but it is simply not true.
Elan-Morin
Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:41 pm
#18
95M3 wrote:I am a Fencer as well and with a good Gaffi I can do more damage than with my knucks. So I dont know what all this Uber (German for super?) damage talk comes from but it is simply not true.
I'm not sure how this is possible, considering both Fencer and TK hit3 have a x5 damage modifier, and TK gets a +250 damage modifier at master. A good (non-enhanced, but sliced) VK can reach over 200 max damage. A good (non-enhanced, but sliced) gaffi can reach a bit over 300 max damage.
So for TK you've got
(200 + 250) * 1.86 * 5 = 4185 max
And for fencer you've got
300 * 1.86 * 5 = 2790 max
Big difference, no?
Fencers and TKs can both spam hit3 once per second at master with suitably fast weapons, so TK's maximum possible damage output is higher.
tometaophion
Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:06 am
#19
Who cares about targeted attacks at 2.5 dmg modifier? LMAO,Unarmed leg hit 1 is the same modifier as polearm leg hit *2* and the VK with Master TKM does more dmg with that than a master pikeman with vibroaxe per second.THAT is the point. A tka can intimidate and warcry and lunge just like your fencer can, except tkas can do it faster due to a higher speed, as the delay to the NEXT attack or move is based on your adjusted weapons speed(VK vs Stun baton/Rantok/Curved sword). I have no pretensions for samurai. The two handed curved sword was called the Katana at launch and in primas strategy guide. This was no doubt changed due to a confusion between the one handed version and the 2 handed version. Yes many professions get stun dizzy, knockdown, blind, but none with 100 percent base accuracy in all of them, Rifleman have attacks with a 30% chance of likelihood, for example. even if the adjusted accuracy accounted for opponent defense IS circumvented, and the effect does not stick, with the highest succession of repeaable attacks, the Effects WILL stick. A lot sooner than a riflemans repeated attempts will.
Message Edited by tometaophion on 02-14-2004 12:07 PM
Niza
Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:16 am
#20
Wear armour? As of the last patch you can effectively counter our KDand dizzy with food. We get no bleed and we can only do kinetic damage (AP 1 at bestwith a VK). Warcry, intimidate and blind attacks take away the little damage we can do.
Naele
Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:31 am
#21
wear armor you fsckstump. 80% kinetic armor will mess us up. Even if a TKM wears armor, your power hammer will do more damage.
swankiller
Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:12 am
#22
honestly, what is the purpose of your thread other than to sit andb it c habout TKA....... what is it getting you? nothing..... why do you feel the need to come here and say you TK's are too powerfull blah blah blah like we havent seen 8 million other posts just like this one. although i commend you for pulling out the numbers and using solidinfo to prove your point, your post has no reason to even be here on these boards if you want something done about the inbalance of the melee proffesions then why dont you post on the general discussion board or the developement board. stop posting here because threads like this arent going to get you what you want ... if YOU even know what that is.
Message Edited by swankiller on 02-15-2004 10:53 AM
Elan-Morin
Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:44 am
#23
swankiller wrote:honestly, what is the purpose of your thread other than to sit and **edit** about TKA....... what is it getting you? nothing..... why do you feel the need to come here and say you TK's are too powerfull blah blah blah like we havent seen 8 million other posts just like this one. although i commend you for pulling out the numbers and using solid info to prove your point, your post has no reason to even be here on these boards if you want something done about the inbalance of the melee proffesions then why dont you post on the general discussion board or the developement board. stop posting here because threads like this arent going to get you what you want ... if YOU even know what that is.
I'm not calling for a nerf; far from it. I was merely contradicting someone's statement that TK isn't powerful. I am a TKM. I'm also a Fencer, and have been both Master Pikeman and Swordsman. I'm not under any delusion that TK isn't the most powerful melee profession as far as offense (against a single, lightly- or un-armored opponent) goes.
In my opinion, it's balanced. TK is great for quick kills in one-on-one battles. Fencer is great for tanking. Swordsman is great for taking out heavily armored opponents. Pikeman is great for crowd control. Each profession has a role. The nerf callers just think that every profession should be the same, when they're just trying to force their profession into a role it's not meant for. To them I say: learn how to play your class, and if you don't like it, switch to a class that better suits your style of play.
Thunderello
Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:37 am
#24
Teras Kasi is like a mystical art form.
If i am a world champion boxer, and you fight me against a Grand Master Kung Fu Artist, i will get my arse royal kicked, they are trained in the art of knowing exactly where to hit.
If i give you a full blown puch in the face you will be dazed, bit if a martial arts expert hits you with the ball of his hand in the throte its gonna be alot worse.
You have brute force vs pure skill/speed and accuracy.
BUT..... If i am a master pikeman, i should be able to keep you at a distance, sweep you off of your feet, and end it in 1 hit when you are down.
At the moment i might aswell hit you with a sweeping brush, if i did make contact on you with a vibro lance, you would have no lower half of your body anymore. (In RL)
See its hard to determin how to do stuff like this, a pikeman should be quite useless in melee against ranged. Like in braveheart.
If you 5 feet from me, i will poke and stab you to death, if you are in my face i can only block a little as the weapon is to large.
I think maybe the defense mods should increase for Pikeman, and maybe more dodge like fencer added, as you can do alot with polearms as to blocking and dodgine (moving ect)
TKA should have a few extra things like concentrated attacks, as a martial artist is more a choice striker and more a defender.
Like i will move and block untill i see an openeing, rather then van dam'ing everyone in the room, fencers are more aggressive as they constatly strike but they are dodging like 90% of all attacks even from stuff a person could not possibly get out of the way of in time...
the ultimate profession SHOULD be commando, like in RL, melee weapons, unarmed for close silent kills, also master riflemen should be able to headshot from like 100m away when prone.
Master Bounty Hunter....Dont get me started, LLC lvl 4 i got 2, i was striking at such a high rate that even one of the first players on the farstar server said wow you shoot fast, like once a second-1.5 seconds, yet all i could see above the krayt dragons head was....-79, -212, 128, 214 - he of course was hitting for like 5000+ on an animal that has 100% resist to his attack ROFL.
BH should be much better, you have seen a MBH (Jango Fett) quite comfortably take on a jedi in EP2, yet once they fight even a brawler they are doomed.
....****Cringes as he remeber what is 1st holo is telling him to do....**** MASTER PIKEMAN.....****
ARRRGHHHHHHH
BUT......Man i love this game ROFL
JCruz
Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:29 am
#25
I don't really see how anyone who plays this game can say tka isn't overpowered.
The first and most easy sign to read is: All the "l337 dud3z" are tka with thier fence and rifleman. I don't know what can be more blatent. They didn't become tka's because they were gimped.
When you look at the elite melee proffessions, you begin to see a pattern. Fencers do the least damage but do it the fastest with good defence so they can hack away for a few minutes. Swordsman do insane mind damage and are balanced with a lack of defence and negative accuracy mods on thier weapons. Pikemen.. Well, I was a pikeman in the first month and i could do 2-4k damage with polearm hit 1 with a regular lance. I mastered pikeman recently and find out that was nerfed long long ago. The current pikeman has terrible accuracy, broken defence (block, and you will probably be hit 100% of the time, if you don't you must be a fencer or tka), tonnes of negative accuracy and can only hit as hard as swordsmen, but to random pools(polearm hit 3 hit for 4k when i was master and the sweeps were god-like at fort tusken). Pikemen don't come into thier own until master; like riflemen(obivously to a much lesser effect).
Then there is the tka. Best accuracy, best speed, best damage, decent weapon (i have a 1.6 speed, 204max dmg VK), a self buff, can target all 3 pools, best toughness, every state effect, 5m range, and can heal thier own wounds (pikemen would give an eye for this ability in thier tree, as i said, they always get hit the most).
How to fix? Well, tka should have 0, yeah ZERO ranged defence (a reasonable way to balance meditation-getting hit would give some wounds; enough to justify what tka gets). **edit** are they dodging blaster fire with?? Just as riflemen should have zero melee defence. Another good thing would be to nerf the **edit** out vibro knucklers or the unarmed damage mods. Unarmed should be just that, unarmed (no weapon). The effects of meditation should be reduced or slowed. I'm currently a combat medic and turned a human tka with 1100 mind all black. 5 minutes later he was group teffing again with no wounds. Speed and accuracy: something has to give. Either they lose some speed or some accuracy. 110speed and 205 accuracy from one tree is gamebreaking IMO. It's like having 200 ranged and 200 melee defence, nothing hits you. With TKA, you don't miss. Please save the crap about "I'm a fencer and i kill tka's everyday". There is more to this game than tka vs fencer (with tka). You have to take into account that a tka might want to group from time to time; what's thier role? Tank?? Damage dealer?? Support?? Well, they got 2 of 3 (3 of 3 if you count meditation wound healing, poison/disease curing).. They are xp eaters; I would never try to lvl rifleman, carbineer, pikeman, swordsman, bounty hunter, commando or any hybrid/elite with a tka in my group.
What do we want to do with the tka?? As it is now, they are a Jack of all trades. Throw in some medic and a ranged proffession and they are the King of all trades.
For anyone wondering, I have mastered every single combat proffession in this game, including combat medic.
tometaophion
Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:53 pm
#26
Oh btw, did you know Master Brawler WAS a prerequisite for TKA before launch? Indeed it is stated in the prima strategy guide, lol. THIS MUST RETURN.