Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Top Issue Defense
I love Thunderwulfs idea of adding the +'s to the respective evasion abilities under three different branches. They all make sense. Another idea could be what about making more use of the Meditation skill? I mean it serves more than enough as a healing factor, (mostly only useful at Master TKA), but how about Meditative buffs? I.E. You get random +'s to any of your defensive or offensive stats the longer you are in meditation. Randomly +1 to Dodge or to Melee Defense, or Ranged Defense, Toughness, any of our core Defensive skill-mods. This would serve two purposes, if we had Dodge/Evade/Block/Counterattack as ELITE MELEE standards across the boards as Thunderwulf stated, putting them uniformly in all 4 elite melee branches. We could then emphasize on a TKA being a master of his body and in the flow of battle spiritually etc through the fact he has Meditation to guide his movements. I'm not talking 30 seconds of meditation for +10 to Dodge or something, I'm talking prolonged 10-30 minute meditation sessions in which the player accrues long-lasting buffs towards their defensive skill-mods instead of HAM. If a TKA knows hes going to be in a PVP battle or plans on going out to the 'grind' to XP for awhile, he could prepare for htis beforehand by Meditating, a'la Jedi, and gaining some sort of advantage to his defensive capabilities for awhile. The exact timings, and +'s are obviously subject to change and balance as the Devs see fit but im simply introducing the idea. (You could also form toggles for the meditation as actual 'meditation' techniques to acquire along the meditation tree. This could help balance things. For example: /meditate defense. When you go into meditate defense stance, you will be focusing all your energy on +'s to your core defensive stats, and for the same time Berserk will now not be able to be used until those +'s have worn off. Or vice-versa for offensive meditation, you take -'s in your Defense stats for the duration of the +'s to offensive buffs. Thirdly, /Meditate Healing along with healing your diseases/wounds/bleeding/damage this would give you +'s to your regenerative HAM bars. But this must be done for a certain amount of time to activate, say 5 minutes of uninterrupted meditation and you are in Healing mode. And this 'mode' serves as a buff in itselfw here you cant meditate in any other 'styles' [Offense/Defense] until the HAM buffs have worn out, this so that people arent meditating in all 3 stances to gain insane buffs)
I'm sure you get the idea, any feedback would be nice. (This seems better than going up meditate for 2 skills and a + to 'Meditate' each level, doesnt seem too intriguing especially when both skills arent too functional or useful)
Wookinpanub wrote:
Everyone's idea of a "tank" seems kinda ludicrous to me. Why should your guy be able to take 5 times the damage of a guy who's wearing the same armor and is also skilled in fighting even if it's a different kind of fighting. They still need to run around and avoid getting hit. Granted it's easier for them, hence they wouldn't get the Block/Counter/Dodge bonuses of Brawlers.
The more you do things, the more your body becomes used to it. Think about lifting weights. When you just start out, your hands may hurt or feel a little scratched up because of the barbell grip. But after a while, you start getting callouses, so you don't feel it quite so much. If we're talking straight damage, no, weshouldn't be able to take more damage, but we should be able to shrug off some of what any other person might normally take (read, any non-melee profession), aka damage reduction or melee defense, whatever you want to call it.
1. What abilities would you give the TKA to improve defense?
I've said in the problems thread that the dodge / block / counterattack skill bonuses should be in the TKA tree, but it belongs in this thread also. I think it goes without saying at this point, but these are skills that I'd naturally expect any melee profession to posses.
2. Where would you put those abilities?
For the TKA branch, I'd put dodge in the meditate branch as I view meditation as a mental strength type of branch, and I'd put counterattack in either Power or Precision Striking. I think that the armed melee professions should have block instead of dodge, but basically they are the same skill.
3. How would you balance these abilities with other professions?
As far as I can tell, this wouldn't need to be balanced at all. These changes are to make the TKA what it should have been in the first place. The numbers may have to be tweaked once we see this in action (here's hoping..), but the skills really should be there.
-Apokalypse- wrote:
How about adding a Mod, maybe to the Meditation line, that decreases the penality for wearing armor?
Med I: Armor penalty x .9
Med I: Armor penalty x .7
Med III: Armor penalty x .6
Med IV: Armor penalty x .45
Just rough numbers...
That's great but what about Wookiee's?
I think the best way to increese our defense is by adding +skill mods to the TKA tree.
As someone else stated
add dodge to our balance area ,about +5 each ? maybe +10 at master
add block to power, same as above in + mods.
and counter to persision.
and possable add +10 to all at master.
this would enable us to stand close and have a much better survival rate then we curently have.
"Ok, in PvP what will evade really give us?
All it will give us is a longer battle in which the Marksmen kites us longer until he kills us."
Anybody who has fought a 190 health pistol user NPC in anything but very fairly tight cooridors (read 90% of the game world) should be able to attest to this truth.You'll evade more shots yes, but you still won't be doing any damage to them. I've chased a 190 health Rogue Corsair (I believe it was a Corsair, never can keep them straight) all around without doing a single point of damage to him while he keeps plunking me for 30-40 damage as we play ring around the rosy in his camp. I could have resorted to a pistol, but I only have that as a method of pulling and was working on my sword experience. It was very Keystone Cops. Had I not toyed with thesimplisticNPC AI to trickhim into a corner he would have killed me eventually if I kept chasing him.
So when talking about defensive abilities, we have to include everything that has been talked about as well... but the ability to catch the person we are fighting to have any offense is just as important. Dralls seem to start running away from you once you get within 30 meters... talk about infuriating. Everyone already knows how this plays out in PVP.
TKA shouldn't be damage absorbers, so I agree that any defensive bonuses should go into Evade and Counterattack style moves, while sword users and pikemen should be getting melee defense, range defense, and toughness bonuses to varying degrees (two handers absorb the most, pikemen next, fencers next, and finally we absorb the least... we get missed the most, then fencers, then pikemen, then swordsmen get hit the most).
Yulina Brynner
Dodge is certainly needed.....we have OK mitigation already.
Dodge however is not the entire answer. Ranged shouldnt be able to hit the broad side of a barn while running and melee shouldnt get quite so pennalized when running at a target.....heck maybe melee should get a damageBONUS when running at a fleeing ranged target 
I know I would hit harder in real life if I took a running start.
Perhaps another way to combat this "Kiting/sticking" problem is to give melee a huge avoidance while running...enough to make it a much harder fight. Hard to hit a ninja in motion.
My favorite Idea is to Fix this problem Like they did In Everquest. Give us the ability to Summon Fleeing players! "You will not evade me soandso!" muhahhaha
Changeintimidate into a paralyze function so that a player cant run away....or runs at a very reduced speed when in effect.....wouldnt change their ability to attack so it wouldnt be as overpowered as Knockdown and would work from a distance.
Those are my defense Ideas A combination of any of them would be a vast improvement.
Also I think if they put +block mods in at all it should not go into the Precision tree because that requires general combat xp. But that’s not a big deal
As far as PvP and defense are concerned, I think it would be balanced if all the melee classes got a positive increase in his or her chance to dodge the greater the distance is to the shooter. This would encourage a sniper to try to get in closer before attacking when they realize they miss 90% of the time at 100+meters.
Kewk wrote:
That's great but what about Wookiee's?
Wookie's give up the option to wear armor in exchange for significantly higher stats. This would only effect them if they were to use a personal shield generator with some kind of penalty.
I didn't mean this to be the only solution, but in addition to an increase in dodge, etc...
For pvp I would add some new attack types:
1) Tackle - basically a knockdown usable while moving that has a built in burst run effect followed by a pause. So you couldn't use it repeatedly to close large distances instead of burst run, but you could use it to prevent short range kiting.
2) Disarm - give us an attack that has a chance of unequiping an equiped weapon. It would have a success chance based upon the weapons category and the opponents skill lvl. The success rate from highest to lowest would be rifle, carbine, pistol, armed melee, unarmed.
3) Knee strikes - short (10sec) snare (60%) effect. Some form of this should be provided to each melee class.
I would also provide lvls of toughness, dodge, parry, and counterattack to each of the melee classes. But have them specialize in areas.
1) unarmed would have the high toughness and dodge, but the lowest damage
2) 1h sword would have the high parry and counterattack and second lowest damage
3) 2h sword would have high parry and toughness and 2nd best damage
4) polearm would have the highest damage and good toughness and counterattack
each would be decent at anything not listed
I would also place a timer on all knockdown effects. Ranged at 1min, pistol at 45sec, and melee at 20sec.
-Apokalypse- wrote:
Kewk wrote:
That's great but what about Wookiee's?
Wookie's give up the option to wear armor in exchange for significantly higher stats. This would only effect them if they were to use a personal shield generator with some kind of penalty.
I didn't mean this to be the only solution, but in addition to an increase in dodge, etc...
My point is, is that his suggestion would nullify the "not so" significantly better stats. If they would let me choose a different race right now and keep all my XP I swear I would do it. I had no clue that wookiees couldn't wear armor. Altough logic should have suggested it...
Think someone said this,
But i see TKA as the dmg dealers..not the takers..Why mod our Defense..instead give us better dmg.. and let Fencers and pikemen take the dmg..So give them a better taunt maybe? or something to get them aggroand give us more of aplus..instead of +10 to dmg..give us +15 at that skill lvl
But then theres a problem with that..most Ranged classes are dmg dealers also..So Do what EQ did after a while, a Ranger gets half accuracy if trying to hit something while his moving...Will change the way they fight, maybe..And balance us with them perfectly...So we wont need a change at all
Everyone is forgeting intimidate. When intimidate lands a mobs damage output is reduced substantially. Although Intimidate costs alot of HAM and mostly misses. Maybe a boost to this skill will help, although it will prove worthless in PVP as we have to reach the rifleman before we can use it. Another probelm is that you get it at Novice Brawler so technically any class can have access to it if it becomes remotely useful.