Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: What do you want TKAs to be?
The TKA is already a well balanced profession. It should be used as the standard against which other melee professions are measured. The TKA has a good balance of useful damage specials, debuff specials, and targetted specials. We are tough and can absorb damage. Our meditate line is extremely useful without being overpowering (contrary to claims, it is not an easy feat to solely level Meditate 4 without great sacrifice). Our weakness is our restriction to AP0 kinetic damage or the option of AP1 kinetic damage at great cost to ourselves. We are weak at area attacks, and thus cannot execute crowd control effectively. We can debuff and distract single opponents without requiring constant attention froma healer - in effect, we pick up the 'adds'. I would change nothing about TKA. Rather I'd bring the other melee classes up to par.
Question for you guys. Would weconsider giving upall AOE (Spin) attacks as a balance for higher power in 1 on 1 direct damage?
Mister_Heavy wrote:
Question for you guys. Would weconsider giving upall AOE (Spin) attacks as a balance for higher power in 1 on 1 direct damage?
That fits the template more. We should not be dealing damage to multiple targets on 1 kick, just doesn't jive.
I'd like to see TKAs as the in close specialists. Come into our wheel house and expect to get knocked out. Our weakness (melee) should lie at the 7-15m range where our attacks become more lunge like and expose us to harder shots.
Ideally (considering we want balance) I suggest:
1. A few variations on the Vibro Knuckle (damage typewise)
2. More elusiveness (we have nothing encumbering us, we should be able to move out of the way of a melee blow) and in turn we should be dealing less damage. As of now we hit too hard.
3. Higher susceptability to a counter attack. When we use 'power' attacks our melee opponents should get a modifier to counter attack. ie: The Unarmed Hit 2 or 3 is not really a martial arts move, more a boxing like maneuver meant go hit a person HARD....Great Damage, but potentially painful if your opponent reads it right and hits you hard.
4. Melee Range Classes: from under 7m (giving the server leeway) we should have a bonus v. other classes (melee or otherwise). We have no weapons to hold us back and just need to throw fists. That leads into....
5. From over 7m: Sure we can hit, but we should be at a disadvantage to other melee (or otherwise) class range. This should force us to lunge either giving a penalty to hit/damage or the higher chance to be nailed on the counter attack.
I love the class as is, but I'd also like to see a little balance. Balance=Variety of characters.
Mister_Heavy wrote:
Question for you guys. Would weconsider giving upall AOE (Spin) attacks as a balance for higher power in 1 on 1 direct damage.
Yes, if the two really did balance out. It's convenient to be able to kill 5 lowbie thug NPCs that have crowded around me, but I'd trade it for a damage boost, AP2, bleeds, or a different damage type (stun!). A natural AP+1 at master would probably be my pick out of those if I had my druthers, but that is probably difficult to implement and would reduce our dependance on the crafter market (heaven forbid). Non-kinetic dmg would be my second choice on the trade.
Mister_Heavy wrote:
Question for you guys. Would weconsider giving upall AOE (Spin) attacks as a balance for higher power in 1 on 1 direct damage?
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right. If you're saying that we must give up AE attacks in order to keep our current 1vs1 damage output, then I'm all for it. If you're saying that we can get more 1vs1 damage by giving up AE, then I'm a little concerned as we already output a great deal of damage. Rather, I'd prefer to give up AE and have our combo moves get debuffs -perhaps stun+blind (combo1) and intimidate (combo2).
I agree with the general sentiment. I see a few elite brawler scales developing and havethe following thought. I am TKM so that is my bias.
Speed = Fast >>>>>>>>>>>>> Slow
Damage = Low >>>>>>>>>>>> High
Based on those scales the Professions = TK >> Fence >> Sword >> Pike
Then when you introduce defense types the TK would be evasive defense type where we are hard to hit but take heavy dmg when hit and Pikemen would be easy to hit but not take much damamge.
--Rip
I would say that I would like us to be the best at speed and damage at the cost of toughness. However we have meditate. We also have every status effect avaible. We should be more of a utility profession than a specialist. Instead of being the best at everything, or being the best at 1 thing. I would rather this profession keep what it has, and just be good at alot of things.
Make fencers better at 1 on 1, make swordsman better overall damage absorbers, and pikeman better for area attacks.
Overall I think teras kasi should be a balanced profession instead of a doing any1 thing really well. The one thing I would like to see changed is our melee toughness. It is too high for the way that the game currently works. With the ability for everyone to wear armor, and our own personal powerboost. This is just an inflated skill mod with no real justification. Otherwise I could be totally happy with taking a back seat in terms of overall damage output if we keep to the generalist fighter theme.
Besides if you can target a specific HAM pool with a "insert HAM pool option" Hit3. You *should* be able to out damage a person that is limited to the very generic meleehit3, and "insert HAM pool option" Hit 1.
I say let the others have the mass damage junk. I want to keep my variety of skills.
Mister_Heavy wrote:
Question for you guys. Would weconsider giving upall AOE (Spin) attacks as a balance for higher power in 1 on 1 direct damage?
Personally I hardly use the spin attacks at all.
TKA should be 1 on 1 combat, I usually just switch and attack multiple targets at one time if I need to.
AOE attacks would be better for Pikemen skills, we really have nothing to swing for an AOE attack anyways.
Maybe you should get the other elite melee corrospondents to show their view. Think it is about time all the melee professions started to work out a balance between us rather than complaining at the other melee proffessions. Think in the end we will all benefit if we all work it out together.
Gozarian our melee toughness is not an overinflated mod with no justification, the HAM costs for TK are very High esp. with a VK equipped, the melee toughness allows us the option of not wearing armor to lower cost of our specials. Have you ever used UA3 with a vk, im guessing I can do about 4 to 5 before I incap myself without armor, no I dont do that b/c I play smarter but thats just the simple fact.
I see TK's as basically what they are now, Light Fast fighters that frontload there damage with jack for defensive mods. Lets be honest we have some of the lowest mods in the game in regards to KD, Blind, etc. At TKM I have I beleave 20% KD def.. thats really low but thats fine b/c the way I see it our tradeoff is the accuracy and the speed, and the frontloaded damage. This damage is also kept in check by the fact we have AP1 at most on our attacks. I think the other Melee should be given an AP wep increase, by that Fencers should get more AP1 and maybe a AP2 wep, Hvy Swords with AP 2 and Pike with AP 3 weps. I think Fencers are probaly about on par with where they should be.. as for Hvy Swords not sure.. but I know Pike has it bad I gave tht a go once and opted to stop hehe. Id like ALL melee to be given other wep damage types such as Acid, Cold. Heck give us the option to poison our weapons I mean that just makes since to be able to Poison our blades .. doesnt it?
In closing im happy with what we are now but I know things are opt to change, but the simple truth is I was a TK on day 1, I was a TK 3 months in and im goin ot be a TK till the day I cancel this game whenever that may be.
Mr. Heavy,
I suggest two steps for improving/revising TKAs:
First, create a true TKA profession that requires 217 skill points to master (like bounty hunter).
Second, for the sake ofcommon sense and balance,downgrade the current 103 skill point TKA model and rename it something other than TKA (maybeMartial Artist). Let me explain
As a profession thats takes 103 Skill points to Master:
I envision TKAs as Warrior Monk / Martial Artists: our strengths should be speed and specials (dizzy, stun, etc).We should be able to fight multiple opponents at close range, and quickly defeat any of the ranged classes that get within or range.
That being said, I feel that we should not be using VKs and that, all else being equal, the weapon melee classes should be able to beat us i one-on-one duels.
If a Master Pikeman who spent 103 points to become Masterfights a Unarmed Master who spent 103 points for his skills who should win?
Pikeman (or swordsman for that matter)..hands down. It would happen in real life. Very rarely marital artists can defeat an armed opponent of equal skill. Sorry, the truth hurts. There are reasons why Karate Black Belts dont spar Kendo Masters in matches. (If anyone would like to challenge this basic premise of mine, bring it on and lets start another thread.)
In summary, as a 103 skill point class, and uarmed fighter should be faster and have more specials than the other melee professions, but be inferior overall. THIS PROFESSION WOULD NOT BE THE TKAs.
REAL TKAs should cost 217 skill points and be UBER to all the other 103 pt melee classes.
They should be required to Master Brawler and Master Entertainer (dancer/acrobat) - yeah laugh but many of the great martial artists were acrobats in the Chinese circus first (Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Samo Hung).
The Brawler mastery would justify our use of weapons, and the Entertainer would justify our mind boosting trees.
Then REAL TKAs should be its own class and be allowed to use martial arits type weapons (nunchaku, tonfa, VKs, chains etc). Perhaps even copy the BH Model and let us have a tree in Polearms and Swords (like BHs have Carbine and Pistol).
We want to be Uber to all other melees?
We want to be the Bounty Hunters of the Melee class?
Then We should put our skill points (217 of them) where our mouth is, justify our Uberness, and keep those Master Dabblers away.
"Here Endeth the Lesson"
Bronzen
Master TKA / Master Commando
Sunrunner
I like the range; I like the damage; I love the speed; I love the toughness. If anything should be 'evolved', try the other brawler class elites. I, personally, am happy with TKA as it stands now. It's awesome. Something done correctly shouldn't evolve at all.
I don't agree with the sentiment at all. We're designed to be the tank. If most of you feel we should deal less damage, but haveincreased toughness, then what's the point? If you can take a bunch of hits, but you're not doing much damage, then how are you a tank? Keep the toughness where it is, and keep the damage where it stands. Fix the other melee professions. You don't want to wear armor? If you're just a pure TKM, do you honestly thinktaking on akimogila is realistic without armor (remove buffs from the equation, or master docs)?
If I wake up one day and find our damage decreased (nerfed), then I'm gone. No more soloing for me. If you want an uber change, increase our toughness and leave our damage alone. Then we'd be the REAL tank.