Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Teras Kasi Role: What Do You Want It To Be?
I wish TKA were more useful in PVP. I own in PVE with TKA.
But then I get in PVP and I can't do jack. 
I also agree with the concept of Unarmed MEANING Unarmed ie no VKs
Plus, I think that if anyone holding a gun, whether they also be a melee prof or not, lets themselves get withinarms reachof a melee expert, (be they TKM, Pikeman,whatever ) should suffer HUGE penalties to accuracy and also have damage against them magnified 2 or 3 times, to reflect a realistic outcome of a close quarter fight between a guy with a gun and a martial arts expert.
Also, please refer to the thread in this forum on TKMs becoming Jedi Hunters, I like that Idea a lot. I think that TKA should be much harder to master and also have some connection with the Force.I don't know how realistic it would be to expect this to happen, but it's a good idea nontheless
biwan:Ok Pai, myself and several people have explained the meaning of Unarmed in relation to combat repeatedly but here it goes again...
In RL history we had many forms of combat refered to as UNARMED, however almost all of these forms used a weapon of some type. In roman cultures it was the Cestus, a spiked leather gauntlet. In asian cultures it was finger blades, or "tiger claw" weapons, ie, see the metal gloves that that Shredder guy wore in the old ninja turtle movies. Those were tradional japanese weapons not just an invention of the artists. Also used in some cultures were items like scarves, fans, and chop sticks. In Europe they used brass knuckles.
While these are weapons they are used in the same manner as your bare hand. You use the same moves, same striking and postures with or without these. Hence they are used as a means to enhance your ability to end the fight quickly. So before people say that VKs should be disallowed because we are UNARMED find out where the history lies in the various styles of Unarmed combat. Unarmed is used figuratively to reflect our lack of large weapons, ie swords, knives, clubs, axes, hammers, guns. And as for armor since I have seen that mentioned on several other threads, the restrictive property of armor is negated by proper training in the use of armor. The answer to armor would be to cert it not take it away. Samurai used plate armor and still fought using martial arts, it is all in the training.
Message Edited by VanBoaru on 05-09-2004 11:24 AM
Dravenite83 wrote:
Ok Pai, myself and several people have explained the meaning of Unarmed in relation to combat repeatedly but here it goes again...
In RL history we had many forms of combat refered to as UNARMED, however almost all of these forms used a weapon of some type. In roman cultures it was the Cestus, a spiked leather gauntlet. In asian cultures it was finger blades, or "tiger claw" weapons, ie, see the metal gloves that that Shredder guy wore in the old ninja turtle movies. Those were tradional japanese weapons not just an invention of the artists. Also used in some cultures were items like scarves, fans, and chop sticks. In Europe they used brass knuckles.
While these are weapons they are used in the same manner as your bare hand. You use the same moves, same striking and postures with or without these. Hence they are used as a means to enhance your ability to end the fight quickly. So before people say that VKs should be disallowed because we are UNARMED find out where the history lies in the various styles of Unarmed combat. Unarmed is used figuratively to reflect our lack of large weapons, ie swords, knives, clubs, axes, hammers, guns. And as for armor since I have seen that mentioned on several other threads, the restrictive property of armor is negated by proper training in the use of armor. The answer to armor would be to cert it not take it away. Samurai used plate armor and still fought using martial arts, it is all in the training.
Fairpoint.Yes there are many smaller weapons in gongfu, for example like fans, studded gauntlets etc, but these weapons all require special training once a certain level of UNARMED skill has been acheived.Astudent would continue to learnunarmed skills while also training in weapons if he or she wished to do so,or focus on learning more unarmed techniques, and choosingbetween "internal" and "external" styles ie styles like RouQuan, Quigong, and their offshoot, Taiji on the internal side, involving meditation etcand Sanshou Training and other external forms on the external sideinvolving sparring techniques etc. ALL styles should have some form of internal training involving at least basic meditation techniques and some internal forms in order to be successful.However, I digress.unarmed skills in martial arts, certainly in gongfu MEAN unarmed.I assure you thatall the things you referred to ARE classed as weapon techniques in martial arts, and require specific training. Yourself and other people have explained an opinion of yours seemingly based on knowledge offilms.If you had anysignificant experience of martial arts, you would firstly not have made such a patronising introductory remark, and secondlywould have come to adifferent conclusion.I do not wish to seem disrespectful, but you seem to think that you have some kind of authority in this matter that can simply brush my opinion aside and, as someone who has practisedmartial arts for a LONG time under the teutalage of REAL masters Ifeelthat you are VERY WRONG IN THIS MATTER!
Arguing aside though,Perhaps a solution would be to simply give TKMs more realistic options for how they choose to fight, with a couple of new weapons, perhaps the ones already suggested. But give us a good reason to choose not to use them if we wish, like some kinds of bonuses for not using any weapon at all.I think it makes sense that TKMs should be given force powers, and would make a nice alternative to Jedi, after all Teras Kasi seem to have been people who used the force and were a match for the Jedi. This added choice would prevent scenarios where every man and his dog is running around with a lightsaber,causing being a Jedi to seem pretty run-of-the-mill after a while. Perhaps once we TKAs unlock our force slot, we could choose on which aspect of our martial art to focus on, with weapons both large and small a possible option.Cortosis-weave weapons that are resistant to lightsabre attacks, like the ones in KOTORand a choice of fighting styles seem appropriate.Basically, if you want a weapon, fine.But if we want to use our bare hands, there should be advantages to this.
Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido and a man with MORE KNOWLEDGE IN HIS BIG TOE THAN THAT OF ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS DEBATE, INCLUDING MYSELF said:
Each and every master, regarless of the era or place, heard the call and attained harmony with heaven and earth.There are many paths leading to the top of Mount Fuji, but there is only one summit-love.
I don't know how acheivable any of my suggestions are. I have little knowledge of computers.I admit this and accept any constructive criticisms, but please people, there is no need to be bitchy to someone because their opinion differs to your own. After all, no-one knows all of truth.
Periclesbiwan:
TKM/Hologrinder/Shaolin Disciple
Volcano Projects
Ok not to flame anyone but Van your reasoning is flawed in your rating system. There have been modern tests that show a trained martial artist can hit as hard or harder with their fist as they can with a weapon. So to give TKs a damage of 4 is just wrong. Also pikemen should have a low defense. in real history pikemen also carried swords or other weapons as once you get past the ends of their weapon they are useless for both attacks and defense. A polearm is unwieldy in extreme close quarters combat. Polearms should have greater range then the other melee profs but suffer severely once someone closes past say 2m. Polearms also should inflict some nasty damage due to the momentum and the style in which they are wielded.Also fencing weapons are deadly. They should have extremely high, only slightly lower than TK, defenses and about equal damage. Heavy swordsmen should be somewhere between fencer and pikes in defense but far superior in damage. After all these weapons were specifically designed to pierce through armor and quickly take out a combatant.
My ratings would be closer to this...
TK: Defense: 10 Attack Speed 10 Damage 7
Fencer: Defence: 9 Attack Speed 9 Damage 8
Pikemen: Defense 4 Attack Speed 4 Damage 9
Heavy Swordsmen: Defense 6 Attack Speed 4 Damage 10
This differentiates but shows a consistancy to the actual way in which these weapons work, hence preempting a lot of the "In RL a xxxxx wouldnt have that high a xxxx" nerf crys. Also I am not a HS but in my opinion them and Rifles should have extremely high AP. That is after all why those particular styles were created to begin with.
Ryutek wrote:
Teräs Käsi, A Warrior's Path
By: Ryutek
Overview: The Teräs Käsi Profession currently has no definition of what our role truly is. This is my vision, and I welcome discussion if you feel so inclined.
Teräs Käsi is largely accepted to mean "Steel Hand." Basically, all that is truly known is that it is a Martial Art in the Star Wars Universe. It is thought that the Teräs Käsi formed an Order that watched the Jedi, ensuring that they were kept in check. These are the assumptions that I use for my vision, and as such are used as facts throughout this document.
Teräs Käsi, A Warrior's Definition
- The Teräs Käsi Artist is adept at using his or her body as a weapon. Though not as strong as someone with a weapon, their speed should be unmatched, and their ability to evade and counterattack an opponent unparalleled. The basic fundamentals of any martial art are to block an opponent's attack (by actually blocking or evading the attack)and to cause enough damage to finish a fight quickly. A martial artist will target vulnerable areas on their opponent's body, and make every hit count. Teräs Käsi Artists should reflect this, and be formidable opponents.
- The Teräs Käsi Artist utilizes their inner spirit (so to speak) to ward off the effects of poisons, diseases, and even wounds. Early in training the Teräs Käsi are even able to "boost" their physical strength (read self-buff). The strongest of Teräs Käsi (read Masters) should be able to channel that "chi" into their attacks and defenses. Be this in the form of stronger overall defenses, or an enhanced ability to recover from incapacitation, or even an enhanced ability to "boost" their physical attributes (read enhanced powerboost).
These are the basic principles that define a Teräs Käsi's abilities. They are reflected in my view of what our profession should be, which I share with you now.
Teräs Käsi, A Warrior's Role
- What offensive abilities?
- Speed. Without the encumberance of wielding a weapon the Teräs Käsi Artist is faster than his or her opponents.
- Accuracy. Related to above, the Teräs Käsi Artist does not have the luxury of being able to hit an opponent with a large weapon, knowing that some part of it will hit them. Therefore they train to be precise strikers, ensuring that their opponent goes down quickly.
- What defensive abilities?
- Defense versus States. The proficient Teräs Käsi Artist should be very difficult to catch unaware, and therefore be quite resistant to being knocked down / posture changed, dizzy, and stunned. Anyone can be blinded or intimidated by an opponent, as should we.
- A Teräs Käsi Artist should be very quick (reflexes), and able to evade or block an incoming attack. Every martial artist is trained to counterattack their opponent(s), and the Teräs Käsi are no exception.
- What unique abilities?
- Meditation. Our abilities are on par here, except that at mastery we should be able to utilize Force of Will a little more frequently, and the duration and/or effects of Powerboost should be enhanced.
- Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
- We should be one of teh main "tanks" in a group. The Teräs Käsi Artist knows how to absorb damage throughout a fight, maintaining their composure while they continue to cause their opponent significant damage.
- What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- The Teräs Käsi have a very limited range of damage types, and rely on other professions to help take down opponents who are resistant to us.
- What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- As the Extended Universe suggests, the Teräs Käsi should be one of the front lines against those Jedi who abuse their powers. Through inner strength the Teräs Käsi ahould be able to resist the Jedi's force abilities, and act as "Watchers."
Please note, this is just my very basic rundown of most of the main points, and only what I think the Teräs Käsi are designed to be. There are many things I could elaborate on, such as the Teräs Käsi Order, specific strengths and weaknesses compared to professions, etc., but I felt the purpose of this thread was to gain an overview of what we thought Teräs Käsi should be.
I'm with him
Periclesbiwan:
TKM/Hologrinder/Shaolin Disciple
Volcano Projects
I see Tera Kasi as a mystical profession with a martial arts fight style.
Just look at two of our titles: Monk & Mystic
What I want TK to be is something like this:
A pure TK would be more of a mystic Role Playing character. At Mystic and Master levels I would have special robes for the TK to wear rather than composite armor. Just like the jedi.
On the other hand I see TK as a profession that someone could dabble in to gain the abilities and then combine those abilities with Smuggler (when smuggler gets melee attacks). This would allow you to Role Play an unarmed fighter that fights dirty ala Smuggler, or a disaplined Martial Artist that mimics the Jedi Order in some ways.
I also think player owned Dojos would be cool places to Role Play.
Message Edited by josfe on 05-10-2004 03:55 PM
Message Edited by tiberian_death on 05-12-2004 03:59 PM