Teras Kasi Archive

How about a "grapple" move that can be used to follow up the lunge. While being used, the opponent is unable to run away (causethe TKA isholding them) but the TKAs damage output is halved (they're holding you with one arm while beating you down with the other). This should be able to be maintained indefinitely...

if necessary, add some sort of SLOW HAM drain while used...

I'm not a TKA, but the way I see it, once one manages to close in on me, I should be unable to get away while he finishes me off. It just makes sense.

Knockdown in my opinion should be a move only melee have. Yet TK's have the highest cost for it atm and the rest of the melee professions don't have it. The same crap is being said a lot whenever ranged vs. melee questions come up "yea they can kite you but if you get to them they die". Anyone else find that to be a load of crap? Let's take pistoleer's for an example. We can be kited by them, they have skills that increase their accuracy while kiting you, if they get into melee range they have equivalent defensive skill mods as you. Which is better? toughness taking less dmg per hit or having their dodge that let's them evade totally. Both of our classes have knockdown's, ours just gimps us if we forget to put the weapon away. "If we get to them then they die" "you have the power of close range" How? They can put out equivalent dmg as ours. The best set of vknuckles I have had is 32-162dmg 2.2spd. The best pistol I've been shot with was 40-234 spd2.2. Yea we get a unarmed dmg bonus but then that pistol is also doing heat damage instead of one of the more "Common" damage types. You figure out which is betterI don't see our advantage. We get more unarmed speed if compared to a pistoleer, if our opponent is a BH/pistoleer that advantage flies out the window and it's hardly a advantage when I've seen pistoleers spam bodyshot which hits for 1k+. Personally I don't use specials, knuckles just seem to do better dmg faster, and if I do use specials I seem to lose health much faster in comparison to what im beating on.

Anyways from my ranting instead of nerfing us or small tweaks here and there to "Appease" us how about changing things so melee actually have a "Close range advantage".

Wow, talk about getting to a thread late. This is what happens when your without a computer at night.

I haven't had a chance to read every post, but overall I think these changes are positive. We will have to see how they play out with actual testing. Nice to see the communication going on though.

I also sticky'd this for all of ya.

I should also add, IMO a TKA should take reduced damage while moving, as it would allow them to dodge, etc. much more easily.

and i should state, I am NOT, nor do i want to be a TKA!

Please don't lower mind pool at all, its painful as it is.

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Holocron wrote:

OK, let me start by saying that we are positive that these changes will need iteration, but that's also why we are posting them as proposals so you can sanity check them:

• Across the board action cost reduction (Not changing knockdowns)
• Improved chance of a defensive move firing (General Combat change)
• Vibroknucklers
• Increasing max range on vibroknucklers to 5 meters
• Changing Health Cost from 32..59 to 18..36 (better)
• Changing Action Cost from 29..46 to 30..54 (different)
• Changing Mind Cost from 15..29 to 18..36 (different)
• These values are modified to be slightly higher than the default unarmed move costs as this is a damage increasing weapon. Because the move costs are being decreased significantly, this should be a much smoother transition.

Thoughts?

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Would it not be posible to tie the effectivness of KD with the diviculty of the target... like Red cons are hard to knockdown... white easy and yellow somewhat inbetween?

So basically you arent going to fix anything and nerf us again. The only thing I see as an improvement is increasing range on knucklers and the attempt at fixing defense. BUT you are not correcting the HAM costs to KD and making the HAM costs on knucklers worse! Why bother reducing the Health cost on a knuckler? We arent dying because of lose of health...we are dying do to lose of Mind (because it cant be healed) which is being made even worse. So I guess this means I need to stat migrate for like the 10th time and put even more points in mind, willpower and focus. Thumbs down for the devs.

This is a bad idea. When we heal it uses our mind and uses it a lot. Doing this will just eliminate us from healing ourselves in battle because we will be too fatigued in that field to do another KD.

This whole idea needs to be rethought with lowering mind costs.

Increasing max range on vibroknucklers to 5 meters

Changing Health Cost from 32..59 to 18..36 (better)

Changing Action Cost from 29..46 to 30..54 (different)

Changing Mind Cost from 15..29 to 18..36 (different)

Thats like saying (analogy coming).

Instead of hitting my character in the head when I perform a KD, I instead am going to hit myself in the balls and break my arm while at it. Thats no fix, thats another problem.

Now in a fight we wont be able to do anything, I am not here to be a punching bag, I like to style.

"I'll tell you that our take as far as TKAs go is that you have some balance issues, but overall you are overpowered, not under. Can you explain to me why that is incorrect? What are you measuring against, exactly. (Pistoleers in PvP? PvE when compared against a comparably advanced carbineer or pikeman? What, exactly, are you using as your baseline?) "

2 examples:
1) A PC with whom my PA is at war with walks into the starport. I'm waiting at the ticket collector. I've a TKA about 1/2 way the boxes. He's a novice BH. He kills me every time using his knockdown (Pistol whip?) and Eyeshot(?) while running all around the starport. In the same time, I can hit him exactly once.
2) I'm fighting Mokk Harvesters on Dantooine. Alone, I can't win. Helping a pistoleer with him shooting and me keeping the mob busy, I always die. If he uses posture change attacks, I can kill the mob easily.

I just want to make the KD problem clear for Holocron:

Once we have depleted our HAM (especially mind) by using KD we are sitting ducks and useless and of course when solo, or in a group 9/10 times, whatever we were fighting is coming after us.

As it is, it does us no good to heal ourselves (more mind drain). We need some allowance for failures or the effectiveness of KD increased to near 100% in PvE at least. Also, so many creatures have close to 10k HAM. It doesn't take too much math to realize that I'm going to run out of HAM (especially mind) before I can do enough damage to kill it, even with a big group. It really does suck to be that close to a mob, be its primary target, and drain the life out of yourself so that it can inevitably incap you. That is really making the game not fun.

I really don't think KD was that bad pre-nerf. I used to unequip my VK then to keep the HAM drain low enough to survive. Now, of course, its russian roulette to even have them in the ToolBar. In my opinion KD needs to be looked at (and reduced) and I say this in all honesty to make the game fun again.

If TKAs were trained to have a chance against jedi (didn't read the books, just from what I've seen) then I don't even care to become a jedi in this game right now.

Aurilius.Starsider.mTKA

Raph.

KD is fun Raph

That is why we want it back

It was just fun!!

Holo,

First thing is that I don't think everyone is asking to be able to spam KD. It's more a case of the extreme costs involved that are disturbing. If the spamming was the problem you were attempting to fix then simply reduce the costs back to what they were prenerf and add a reuse timer to ALL KD moves. That includes ranged KD and melee.

That would eliminate anyone being able to spam KD at all. Make the reuse maybe 30 sec or so before you can use the ability again. But if this is done it should apply to all KD moves as stated above.

If your concern is that we could spam KD before and take no damage then how much more extreme is it to be able to KD from range repeatedly and still have a headstart to run if needed?

A timer is the simple, easy, and much requested fix for the problem with KD spamming.

Please take this into consideration prior to putting together the next patch.

Tebryn