Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Teräs Käsi Discussion: Combat Balance
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Ryutek
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:57 am
#1
We have an old thread (located HERE) with a lot of good information. It has grown rather large, however, and I would like to see it continued in another thread. If you have anything to add please do so here
There is another thread HERE about the Razor Knuckler as opposed to possible other Damage types as well that has some very good discussion. We can continue that here as well
Overview: The Teräs Käsi Profession currently has no definition of what our role truly is. This is my vision, and I welcome discussion if you feel so inclined.
Teräs Käsi is largely accepted to mean "Steel Hand." Basically, all that is truly known is that it is a Martial Art in the Star Wars Universe. It is thought that the Teräs Käsi formed an Order that watched the Jedi, ensuring that they were kept in check. These are the assumptions that I use for my vision, and as such are used as facts throughout this document.
- The Teräs Käsi Artist is adept at using his or her body as a weapon. Though not as strong as someone with a weapon, their speed should be unmatched, and their ability to evade and counterattack an opponent unparalleled. The basic fundamentals of any martial art are to block an opponent's attack (by actually blocking or evading the attack)and to cause enough damage to finish a fight quickly. A martial artist will target vulnerable areas on their opponent's body, and make every hit count. Teräs Käsi Artists should reflect this, and be formidable opponents.
- The Teräs Käsi Artist utilizes their inner spirit (so to speak) to ward off the effects of poisons, diseases, and even wounds. Early in training the Teräs Käsi are even able to "boost" their physical strength (read self-buff). The strongest of Teräs Käsi (read Masters) should be able to channel that "chi" into their attacks and defenses. Be this in the form of stronger overall defenses, or an enhanced ability to recover from incapacitation, or even an enhanced ability to "boost" their physical attributes (read enhanced powerboost).
These are the basic principles that define a Teräs Käsi's abilities. They are reflected in my view of what our profession should be, which I share with you now.
- What offensive abilities?
- Speed. Without the encumberance of wielding a weapon the Teräs Käsi Artist is faster than his or her opponents.
- Accuracy. Related to above, the Teräs Käsi Artist does not have the luxury of being able to hit an opponent with a large weapon, knowing that some part of it will hit them. Therefore they train to be precise strikers, ensuring that their opponent goes down quickly.
- Speed. Without the encumberance of wielding a weapon the Teräs Käsi Artist is faster than his or her opponents.
- What defensive abilities?
- Defense versus States. The proficient Teräs Käsi Artist should be very difficult to catch unaware, and therefore be quite resistant to being knocked down / posture changed, dizzy, and stunned. Anyone can be blinded or intimidated by an opponent, as should we.
- A Teräs Käsi Artist should be very quick (reflexes), and able to evade or block an incoming attack. Every martial artist is trained to counterattack their opponent(s), and the Teräs Käsi are no exception.
- Defense versus States. The proficient Teräs Käsi Artist should be very difficult to catch unaware, and therefore be quite resistant to being knocked down / posture changed, dizzy, and stunned. Anyone can be blinded or intimidated by an opponent, as should we.
- What unique abilities?
- Meditation. Our abilities are on par here, except that at mastery we should be able to utilize Force of Will a little more frequently, and the duration and/or effects of Powerboost should be enhanced.
- Meditation. Our abilities are on par here, except that at mastery we should be able to utilize Force of Will a little more frequently, and the duration and/or effects of Powerboost should be enhanced.
- Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
- We should be one of the main "tanks" in a group. The Teräs Käsi Artist knows how to absorb damage throughout a fight, maintaining their composure while they continue to cause their opponent significant damage.
- We should be one of the main "tanks" in a group. The Teräs Käsi Artist knows how to absorb damage throughout a fight, maintaining their composure while they continue to cause their opponent significant damage.
- What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- The Teräs Käsi have a very limited range of damage types, and rely on other professions to help take down opponents who are resistant to us.
- The Teräs Käsi have a very limited range of damage types, and rely on other professions to help take down opponents who are resistant to us.
- What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- As the Extended Universe suggests, the Teräs Käsi should be one of the front lines against those Jedi who abuse their powers. Through inner strength the Teräs Käsi ahould be able to resist the Jedi's force abilities, and act as "Watchers."
- As the Extended Universe suggests, the Teräs Käsi should be one of the front lines against those Jedi who abuse their powers. Through inner strength the Teräs Käsi ahould be able to resist the Jedi's force abilities, and act as "Watchers."
Please note, this is just my very basic rundown of most of the main points, and only what I think the Teräs Käsi are designed to be. There are many things I could elaborate on, such as the Teräs Käsi Order, specific strengths and weaknesses compared to professions, etc., but I felt the purpose of this thread was to gain an overview of what we thought Teräs Käsi should be.
Also Note that I wrote this some time ago, and plan to update it soon
Message Edited by Ryutek on 08-10-2004 12:52 PM
TieWalker
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:00 pm
#2
of coarse you do know that the attack styles of fencer would mean they would be followingthe same path, if you want to be realalistic a skilled melee weapons master should be able to quickly take down an unarmed man. Plus the ablilty to hit different parts of the body should not be limited to other professions, meditation should also be usable to other melee professions. Good lord remember you get a weapon with AP and damage multipliers from your profession! Some melee professions don't get a good AP weapon that can be used in combat. Which makes more sense a knuckler cutting though armor or a sword wielded in a fencing way should go though armor? In reality if a TK was ever surpised by a man wit ha weapon they would die rather fast, also your chi won't stop a sword from entering your chest and killing you! lol you know TK is overpower and that it doesn't need any positives changes atm.
O and on the razorknuckler, post a knuckler is a peice of metal you put on your hand to allow you to cause a more painful blow while not hurting your hand too much. This means it's not going to be electric (lol the weilder would die too), and not other damage type would ever make sense beyond kinetic for a knuckler to have.
I hate people who don't realize how good they got it lol
Mankind00
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:14 pm
#3
Nice post Ryutek, I very much agree with what your saying, for me one of the main things is this whole Jedi watchman style thing, I think this would be a good roll to place the TK in as it is what most refrences of us say we are, but at the same time we need to be done in a way that we'r not geting steping in the BHs teritory of hunting Jedi. Personly I think our proffesion should be made more of a Hybrid then an elite, & one of the trees be made more difficult to level (like BH has investigation).
Acording to the back stories of TK we also we'r push to the brink of extinction like the jedi were when Palpatine started his purge as we were seen as powerful, just we wern't hunted in the same way. My veiw on all this history of our proffesion, too me, makes it look like we should be rarer but have strong deffenses againest Jedi, maybea reduction on how well their abilities work on us & so on. But that is just my opinion & I'm not gonna go in to it any deeper.
As for the Razor Knuckler personly I think that it might be an idea to keep it Kinetic but make it AP2, so we are still limited but we are used as more then tanks in high level PvE (lets face it AP1 doesn't cut it for PvE if it's high level stuff), either that or make it an Energy weapon, that way, like pikemen, once we get one we will be able to contribute more to geting another (assuming they keep the requirments of the NS Vibro-motors)
Anyway those are just my opinions & any comments are welcome.Sorry for my awful spelling etc, it's 3am here & I'm shattered 
fritz300
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:20 pm
#4
As long as we can still kick butt better then any other profession and easily dominate Jedi, I'll be happy!
Chondrus
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:12 am
#6
I really like the idea of being the counter-measure to Jedi who get out of line, but maybe the resistance should be dependant on how many other Teras Kasis you're grouped with. This way, three or four Teras Kasi Masters could ward off a dark Jedi, whereas one alone might only be able to survive powerful attacks. That would certainly encourage the formation of 'orders'.
Kiki Kobushi
Teras Kasi Master
Intrepid
Kiki Kobushi
Teras Kasi Master
Intrepid
TusserkSuurg
Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:57 am
#7
I agree, we are over balanced... we are MORE than balanced. W/e..
How about instead of calling for nerfs, you call for your correspondent to fix your prof?
To the guy that doesnt understand how a knuckler works... its like one of those electric food cutting knives, it moves back and force really quick for some impressive cutting power. Razor Knucklers though.. heat? no idea, lol. Remember, these are the devs that made lightsabres kinetic and sg-82 cold (its supposed to be sonic).
How about instead of calling for nerfs, you call for your correspondent to fix your prof?
To the guy that doesnt understand how a knuckler works... its like one of those electric food cutting knives, it moves back and force really quick for some impressive cutting power. Razor Knucklers though.. heat? no idea, lol. Remember, these are the devs that made lightsabres kinetic and sg-82 cold (its supposed to be sonic).
TKA-MC
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:03 am
#9
I really enjoy TKM, I being a Master Commando also must have somthing to give me some sort of defense, TKM is the profession I use more of now. Unarmed Toughness is great. I agree with the original post, TKM does need some sort of defined role. This goes for all professions. In my belief TKM should be one of the most powerful melee profession's if not the most potent melee profession. Combat Revamp should define the TKM role more clearly.
00over0
Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:39 am
#10
I would most like to see a more-defined role for TKs. However, this being a player-content-based game (that is, for the most part we create our own content), I think the Devs are not going to introduce anything unless we specifically ask for it. So in that regard, what sort of things would those interested in the ROLE of the TK most like to see? (I think for the most part the rest of the profession is fine.)
Perhaps a ranking system, similar to that for Jedi?
TK halls (either buildable or Dev-made) that confer some sort of benefit?
Special clothing (just for looks)?
Access to BH terminals for Jedi? Except, I think for TK there should be no monetary reward.
Just some thoughts.
Onsa
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:29 pm
#11
Its a nice profession... a profession i didn't want to take and i took.
The reality is that an unarmed combat like it is shouldn't be as powerful as it is... I have just finished my TKM today.. and boy was it tedious to master. But the rewards are great. Virtually no PvE gets in your way...
Can someone please define AP1 and AP2? what is it? what does it stand for?
The reality is that i feel there will bea huge nerf to our profession... why?? because its simply overbalanced to this way and because more than 60% of the warriors are TKA... that is simply no balance to the game...
Either they make it harder than it already is to master TKM or simply NERF down untill your are master.
Nice moves, definitely impressive. But still... i think the profession is overbalanced.
SKSniper
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:58 pm
#13
Interesting post there Ryutek
Mind if I make a few suggestions?
Just for a quick reference, I was a Martial Art's student. So I know what I'm talking about when it come's to Martial Arts, although I won't list my accomplish's since that'd be bragging.. which is a no in my book
Being a soon-to-be TKM I've taken notice of a couple things
[b]1[/b]. TKM's don't have stat specific clothing (clothing, NOT armor)
[b]2[/b]. We have VK's, which is good mind you, and being restricted to one weapon actually helps when it come's to making money
[b]3[/b]. Amount of exp required to advice complete through the TK line is (at least the line's not requireing combat exp) is 3,675,000
Over 3 mill, which if you play it doesn't feel like that.
In my opinion, here's what should be changed
[b]1[/b]. Since TK's are unarmed based we shouldn't really be able to use armor (armor add's emburance) therefor we should be restricted to wearing only clothing or profession specific clothing (IE clothing only made by a tailor, but only usable by a TK)
Advantages:
[b]1[/b]. This'll give the tailor's a two fold abilities
[b]1A[/b]. They'll be able to make clothing specific to Tera Kasi Novice's
[b]1B[/b], They'll be able to make clothing specific to Tera Kasi Masters
Secondary Advantages to Tailors
[b]1[/b]. They'll be able to make the clothing that a TK will need in order to perform to there best
Advantages to TKs:
[b]1[/b]. Without the armor we won't need to worry about emburance.
[b]2[/b]. The clothing madecould havea specific set of stat enhancers
Secondary Advantages to having cloth:
[b]1[/b[.When using cloth you're not encombured with weight, there for you're attack's are faster and stronger
Example:
Some Tera Kasi's I know spam with Unarmed 3 (cause all the other attack's are practically useless) there for MIND is a real factor, but even if people DON'T spam with Unarmed 3 it STILL become's a major factor in the life of a TK
Therefor, the clothing made COULD have an enhancer to enhance mind, perhaps even Focusto
Now, here's what I believe SHOULD happen to TK's if they DO wear armor
[b]1[/b]. Attack speed should be decrease'd (I've noticed that even with my armor on and off my attack speed is the same)
[i]Reason for decreased attack speed?
[b]A[/b]. You're wearing something that is considered heavy
[b]B[/b]. Some Armor restrict's you're range of movement, perhap's it should make it impossible to use SOME of you're abilitie.[/i]
[b]2[/b]. It should cost more to initiate an attack, perhaps it should cost health, action AND mind... maybe the attack's cost should increase by 25-50%
[i]Reason's for increase'd HAM cost?
[b]A[/b]. The armor you wear make's it hard to determinethe damage you deal. There for, it should cost more to use a special abilitie.
[b]B[/b].The thing is armor is that it's bulky and in some case's does cause injury, there for when pulling such attack's like that it should only be logical that you'd get injuried in some way from making the move's you make[/i]
Now that that is posted.. let me say what other improvements I believe a TK should have
I like the idea of a watch over Jedi's, god know's we need it because of the number of jedi's ingame (ecilpse alone, from what I've heard has over 100+ jedi's, and I believe that's true cause I never see the same jedi twice)
I have other idea's for TK's but will only post them if you guy's would like me to
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