Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKM vs. JEDI, a new system for TKM
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imhigh2
Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:02 pm
#1
O.K. here i go,In the books tkm are suppossed to just as powerful or close to a jedi knight. I like this idea (and im a jedi) and think we should explore it. Why does every proffession except jedi use the same amount of skill pointsand xp tomaster, this is stupid. why can't we make a tkm skill tree similar to a jedi,that will take an obsured amount of xp to get to, or say you can allocate all skill points into that singleskill treeto be a better tkm( i think something similar is in the CU). Maybe by doing this not everyone will try to be a jedi, althogh that is not the purpose of this post. I just think it would be cool to see a tkm take on a jedi, I see it all the time now but it's not at all fair, if any1 has gone through the jedi tree it can take months and months and months, hence you get 750 xp from a quenker vs. 5000xp for non jedi and not to mention to get to tier 4(4000)LS you need 3 mil xp, thats over 12mil xp for 1 skill tree. You can master tkm in like a few days if you just cruising. Or maybe do something like levels afteryou master a proffession, like start at level 1 once you master a proffession and the longer you stay the proffession, the more xp you get the higher level. Say that a level 50 tkm would put up a good fight against a jedi knight. Just a thought, I really want to see what they do w/ the CU.
TravonLepen
Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:25 pm
#2
imhigh2 wrote:
O.K. here i go,In the books tkm are suppossed to just as powerful or close to a jedi knight. I like this idea (and im a jedi) and think we should explore it. Why does every proffession except jedi use the same amount of skill pointsand xp tomaster, this is stupid. why can't we make a tkm skill tree similar to a jedi,that will take an obsured amount of xp to get to, or say you can allocate all skill points into that singleskill treeto be a better tkm( i think something similar is in the CU). Maybe by doing this not everyone will try to be a jedi, althogh that is not the purpose of this post. I just think it would be cool to see a tkm take on a jedi, I see it all the time now but it's not at all fair, if any1 has gone through the jedi tree it can take months and months and months, hence you get 750 xp from a quenker vs. 5000xp for non jedi and not to mention to get to tier 4(4000)LS you need 3 mil xp, thats over 12mil xp for 1 skill tree. You can master tkm in like a few days if you just cruising. Or maybe do something like levels afteryou master a proffession, like start at level 1 once you master a proffession and the longer you stay the proffession, the more xp you get the higher level. Say that a level 50 tkm would put up a good fight against a jedi knight. Just a thought, I really want to see what they do w/ the CU.
no way is any profession supposed to be just as powerful as a Jedi Knight, not in SWG anyway. And if you watch the movies, the Jedi shown are all the most powerful people in the galaxy.
TKMonkey
Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:14 pm
#3
TravonLepen wrote:
no way is any profession supposed to be just as powerful as a Jedi Knight, not in SWG anyway. And if you watch the movies, the Jedi shown are all the most powerful people in the galaxy.
Only because there are no Teras Kasi in the films, I'm sure Luke Skywalkerwould disagree with you after his run in with Arden Lyn. A jedi draws their power from the force, the Teras Kasiorderdraw their strength from within, as the flame of the jedi was extinguished from the galaxy as was the need for Teras Kasi - whos lives involved watching thejedi, as they believed such power would inevitably corrupt.
Having said that -a Teras Kasi (with other parts in the template) can beat a low jedi, so I don't see a problem with it the way it is 
Cango
Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:26 pm
#4
The books NEVER said a TKA was as strong as a Jedi.
Phow Ji, mentioned on a lucas arts promo site, and in Medstar 1:battle surgeons, is one of the best Teras kasi Artists ever. He was a member of the follwoers of Palawa, and beat a Jedi (who wasnt using the force) in an unarmed tournament. He coudl take out 6 mercenaries, bare handed, without flinching.
However, when he fought a Jedi Healer, she could have killed him with one swipe of the saber.
TKA arent supposed to be allpowerful or uber.
Phow Ji, mentioned on a lucas arts promo site, and in Medstar 1:battle surgeons, is one of the best Teras kasi Artists ever. He was a member of the follwoers of Palawa, and beat a Jedi (who wasnt using the force) in an unarmed tournament. He coudl take out 6 mercenaries, bare handed, without flinching.
However, when he fought a Jedi Healer, she could have killed him with one swipe of the saber.
TKA arent supposed to be allpowerful or uber.
Mankind00
Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:33 pm
#5
TKMonkey wrote:
Only because there are no Teras Kasi in the films, I'm sure Luke Skywalkerwould disagree with you after his run in with Arden Lyn. A jedi draws their power from the force, the Teras Kasiorderdraw their strength from within, as the flame of the jedi was extinguished from the galaxy as was the need for Teras Kasi - whos lives involved watching thejedi, as they believed such power would inevitably corrupt.
Having said that -a Teras Kasi (with other parts in the template) can beat a low jedi, so I don't see a problem with it the way it is
I'm still yet to see any offical source saying the bit I highlighted in yellow. This is all from a peice of Fan Fiction which untill I managed to find again I was unsure on wether it was proper information or if it was just Fan Fiction, we looked back at it & it was deffinatly Fan Fiction.
The only refferences in the books include that the TK are from Bunduki & that there was another race who invaded them who also studied TK. & also that Prince Xizor studied the art & was considered a dangerous opponante by Vader. Also that Darth Maul was trained in the art.
But anyway thats drifting from the main topic & we really don't need another thread talking about the history of the TK as we have so many.
Personly the system proposed at the start is not oneI like the idea of, TK fits well as a normal proffesion. The only proffesion I would like to see enhanced to head the route of Jedi is BountyHunter.
A while ago a Correspondent (possibly Ryutek, I can't remember, it might not have even been a Corre 
) said that he felt BH was implimented wrong & that it should have worked as an enhacement to any proffesion & added the BH element in to it, which personly I think is a great idea, so how I take that is that all the normal combat proffesions would be lke choosing between Saber, Enhancement, Healer, Powers etc. But then I'd like to see a Bounty Hunter Guild, FRS style, ehancment system to become better & more efficent at hunting marks, maybe have bonuses to melee, & ranged accuracy, throw in stuff like Man Traps etc.
Personly BH is the only proffesion I think could do with that type of change & should have the ability (but one which has to be worked for& not just given like a normal Master box) to go toe to toe with a Jedi Knight. To change a proffesion like TK which is a well established 92point proffesion would only cause many outcries & complaining in my opinion.
Just my 2creds on it.
TravonLepen
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:27 pm
#6
I just can't stand how everyone tries to make TK the "poor man's Jedi"
Every post, every thought, every sentiment seems to want to take an aspect of the Jedi path and make it accessible for Teras Kasi artists.
Do we really need robes? or reasons to watch/hunt/kill Jedi?
Why isn't it enough that we created our own history and background?
How many other professions in this game have done that?
Why can't we let Teras Kasi be Teras Kasi and Jedi be Jedi?
TKMonkey
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:54 pm
#7
Mankind00 wrote:
I'm still yet to see any offical source saying the bit I highlighted in yellow. This is all from a peice of Fan Fiction which untill I managed to find again I was unsure on wether it was proper information or if it was just Fan Fiction, we looked back at it & it was deffinatly Fan Fiction.
The only refferences in the books include that the TK are from Bunduki & that there was another race who invaded them who also studied TK. & also that Prince Xizor studied the art & was considered a dangerous opponante by Vader. Also that Darth Maul was trained in the art.
But anyway thats drifting from the main topic & we really don't need another thread talking about the history of the TK as we have so many.
There's quite a few references to Tks ability to fight Jedi in Medstar I: Battle Surgeons by Micheal Reaves and Steve Perry (set in the Clone Wars period), I'm sure there's more references out there which give some more light on teras kasi it's just no one ever seems to know and the official star wars site isn't too helpful >_<
It'd be good if someone started a reference list for where everyone’s opinions on Teras Kasi come from, because you're right - a lot of it seems to just be hear say stemming from fan fiction around that beat 'em up Masters of Teras Kasi etc.
It'd be good if someone started a reference list for where everyone’s opinions on Teras Kasi come from, because you're right - a lot of it seems to just be hear say stemming from fan fiction around that beat 'em up Masters of Teras Kasi etc.
ValcynChiana
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:05 pm
#8
well, one idea i've had in mind for a while for a combat profession change is similar to this, but not just for tka.
Currently, our combat professions generally have four trees representing speed, accuracy, offense, and defense.
Each of these trees could be enhanced to contain many more skill boxes than they currently do, and while this would increase the points required for a combat profession, i think the benefits would be worth it.
The different jedi 'professions' are healer, enhancer, powers, defender, and lightsaber. If we expanded the speed, accuracy, offense, and defense of a normal melee (or ranged) profession into more of a full profession in its own, this could work much better.
basically, you would have two main starting combat professions, brawler and marksman. Each of these would work sort of like the Force sensitive trees.
Novice brawler (novice box. At novice brawler you would be given an array of weapons to start with, and can use any of the weapons to get xp for any brawler box)
Melee defense 1-4 (add melee defense bonuses)
Melee Accuracy (add weapon accuracy bonuses)
Melee speed (add weapon speed bonuses)
Melee offense (add special attacks and damage bonuses that are not weapon specific)
Master Brawler (you've gotta get this before any advanced melee profession)
With marksman it would be similar:
Novice marksman (novice box, gives you an array of weapons you can work with)
Novice marksman (novice box, gives you an array of weapons you can work with)
Ranged Defense 1-4 (add ranged defense bonuses)
Ranged Accuracy 1-4 (add weapon accuracy bonuses)
Ranged Speed 1-4 (add weapon speed bonuses)
Ranged Offense (add special attacks and damage bonuses that are not weapon specific)
Master Marksman (required for any elite ranged professions)
Each of the skill boxes would cost only 1 skill point, similar to the FS system. Once you get either of them mastered, you can go into elite "professions" to specialize in specific weapons or gain other bonuses.
For melee you would get:
Melee combat specialization
1st tree - One handed weapon techniques
2nd tree - two handed weapon techniques
3rd tree - polearm weapon techniques
--these first three trees give accuracy, speed, and damage bonuses for their respective weapons.
4th tree - general combat techniques
--the last tree gives generic, non weapon-specific attacks, as well as "unarmed" attacks and damage/speed/accuracy bonuses
Melee defense specialization
1st tree - Melee defense (gives the standard melee defense bonus)
2nd tree - State defense (gives state defenses. Defense vs Knockdown, dizzy, posture change, stun, intimidate, blind, etc.)
3rd tree - defensive techniques (gives defensive acuity, I.E. the ability to randomly block, dodge, and counter attacks)
4th tree - Melee Toughness (gives generic toughness, as well as resistances to poison/disease/fire etc.)
Meditation Specialization
-- this one will probably not be much loved by our current tka's, but i think everyone who puts the points into it should be able to meditate, as its an invaluable skill --
1st tree - Wound healing (as skill increases, you can heal wounds faster. at box one you can heal health wounds, box two can heal action wounds, box three can heal mind wounds, and box four simply increases speed)
2nd tree - poison healing (as skill increases, poisons heal faster. Also gives an innate resistance to poison)
3rd tree - disease healing (as skill increases, diseases heal faster. Also gives an innate resistance to disease)
4th tree - Meditation skills (first box gives powerboost 1, increasing all primary stats by half the player's average of stats (it takes all three primary stats, averages them, and boosts them by half that number. Second box gives powerboost 2, which increases the player's secondary stats by half the average of their three primary stats. Third box gives a skill similar to the zabrak's equilibrium, equalizing all three primary pools. Fourth box gives force of will, allowing them to recover from incap)
Armor Specialization
-- this would be available to both marksman type players as well as melee type players, but would involve more types of armor being added to the game --
1st tree - Melee armor types (each box allows the player to use armor that provides increasing resistances to kinetic, blast, and stundamage)
2nd tree - Energy armor types (each box allows the player to use armor that provides increasing resistances to energy and electric damage)
3rd tree - Special armor types (each box allows the player to use armor that provides increasing resistances to heat, cold, and acid type damage)
4th tree - Armor effectiveness (each box gives a decrease to the encumbrance of the player's equipped armor, as well as an increase in it's resistances)
(these are for marksman)
Firearms Specialization
1st tree - pistol specialization (gives special attacks for pistols, and bonuses to speed, accuracy, and damage)
2nd tree - carbine specialization (gives special attacks for carbines, and bonuses to speed, accuracy, and damage)
3rd tree - rifle specialization (gives special attacks for rifles, and bonuses to speed, accuracy, and damage)
4th tree - combat tactics (gives bonuses to melee/ranged defense as well as generic, non weapon-specific attacks for ranged weapons)
Marksmanship specialization
1st tree - Accuracy (gives further enhancements to accuracy)
2nd tree - Speed (gives further enhancements to speed)
3rd tree - Damage (gives further enhancements to damage)
4th tree - Defensive techniques (gives defensive acuity, I.E. the chance to randomly Dodge, block, or counterattack)
Bounty Hunter Specialization
1st tree - Hunting techniques (gives bonuses to a BH form of 'player tracking', as well as terrain negotiation)
2nd tree - droid usage (gives bonuses to the use and effectiveness of tracking droids)
3rd tree - Equipment usage (gives the ability to use, and bonuses to, specialized bounty hunter equipment such as wrist flamethrowers, jet packs, grappling hooks, stun bombs, etc.)
4th tree - Trained reflexes (gives more bonuses to defensive acuity, melee defense, ranged defense, and increases the equipped weapon's speed, damage, and accuracy, and a decrease in theweapon switching delay)
Now, because of the increased number of skill points a combat profession would take, i propose that they remove the current form of skillpoints. Combat professions should have seperate skillpoints from crafting, healing, and other generally non combat professions. a 250 point, maybe down to 200 point limit would be given for combat professions, allowing you to get master brawler or marksman, and maybe two full professions and a half profession similar to jedi. Other professions would be given enough skillpoints to master and then some for other things.
Anyways, that'd give us a bit more of an ability to customize how our player fights, and would make for a much welcome change to the same, boring combat templates that everyone uses now.
ValcynChiana
Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:26 am
#9
right now i think the game is fine as it is, for the most part.
Only a few things need to be done to fix pvp and combat.
1. Get rid of super armor, weapons, and buffs. We should not have 700 strength mind fire dots on every other weapon, we should not have 80-90% comp armor that resists everything, we should not have buffs that more than double our stats, and we shouldnt have looted weapons that get 1.0 speed and 1000 damage out of the bag.
2. Fix the problems with the 'broken' professions. Pikeman has accuracy problems, and its block is broken. Almost all pistoleer specials are broken. Carbineer needs more accuracy because it blows without BH. Fencer needs some new weapons with AP1.
3.Allow medics to heal mind like they used to be able to. Mind is a major problem in pvp, and basically makes classes that can get mind Dots, or can attack mind directly, the only viable pvp classes.
4. Remove defense stacking. Supposedly they're gonna do this, lets hope they do. Almost every pvper out there has one of only a few templates, because they're the only ones that work. Melee/ranged defense and defense vs states from seperate professions should not stack.
5. Completely reverse what you did with the solo group nerf. It was a big mistake. Currently, nobody has much of a way of making money anymore, but all the crafters STILL charge half a million for a suit of armor. You fked up the economy, fix it.
6. Pay more attention to your dam customers. All the stuff i've said above has been reported thousands of times by players on every server. If you payed attention to us you'd have fixed the game by now. But, oh, im sorry, SOE must be too busy attending their fans in everquest 2 to run this game.
I swear, if the devs would just listen to what the players are telling them is wrong with the game, we wouldnt have so many problems as we do now.
Phaelyn
Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:20 am
#10
Ok, gonna play Devil's Advocate here, for sake of discussion.
ValcynChiana wrote:
right now i think the game is fine as it is, for the most part.
Only a few things need to be done to fix pvp and combat.
1. Get rid of super armor, weapons, and buffs. We should not have 700 strength mind fire dots on every other weapon, we should not have 80-90% comp armor that resists everything, we should not have buffs that more than double our stats, and we shouldnt have looted weapons that get 1.0 speed and 1000 damage out of the bag.
For the most part, I agree - However, there SHOULD be limited amounts of "Uber" weapons and armor around. Make them *extremely* rare, and not able to last forever. That way, you can initiate a "King of the Hill" type system, where those who managed to receive these items can fight at one tier, while others can still enjoy PvP combat at a lower tier. Of course, if a lower tier should somehow deeat the upper tier - That would show skill vs Equipment.
2. Fix the problems with the 'broken' professions. Pikeman has accuracy problems, and its block is broken. Almost all pistoleer specials are broken. Carbineer needs more accuracy because it blows without BH. Fencer needs some new weapons with AP1.
No argument here, but why just Fencer for new weapons? Although tons will deny it, with all the whining, TK *IS* going to get nerfed in the so called "CU" - Compensate for the losses by giving several types of VK style weapons to choose from. If a Power Hammer can have Blast damage - Why not a VK?
3.Allow medics to heal mind like they used to be able to. Mind is a major problem in pvp, and basically makes classes that can get mind Dots, or can attack mind directly, the only viable pvp classes.
Ah, but if we are eliminating (Or limiting) the amount and strength of DOT weapons, we already HAVE a class that fits the bill - Combat Medics, which makes perfect sense.
4. Remove defense stacking. Supposedly they're gonna do this, lets hope they do. Almost every pvper out there has one of only a few templates, because they're the only ones that work. Melee/ranged defense and defense vs states from seperate professions should not stack.
For the most part, I agree. However, to keep the experience of the game to feel as if there are multiple ways to handle things, a way to create a more defensive template should still be possible. Someone suggested such a way in the thread already, so won't go into more depth about it.
5. Completely reverse what you did with the solo group nerf. It was a big mistake. Currently, nobody has much of a way of making money anymore, but all the crafters STILL charge half a million for a suit of armor. You fked up the economy, fix it.
That would depend upon your server - I never pay more than 200K on Radiant, and have paid about a Mill on Bria. Pumping MORE credits into the system doesn't compensate - Refusing to pay the inflated prices DOES. After all, if nobody buys the armor at such high prices, the crafter either needs to lower the prices, or watch as his stock (And bank account) goes to waste. Unless one is an Elite soldier, or Jedi, I can't see why anyone - ANYONE.. should be able to solo a Rancor Lair. Heck, Luke had a tough time against ONE - Why can a TKM take down 10 without breaking a sweat?
6. Pay more attention to your dam customers. All the stuff i've said above has been reported thousands of times by players on every server. If you payed attention to us you'd have fixed the game by now. But, oh, im sorry, SOE must be too busy attending their fans in everquest 2 to run this game.
100% in agreement.
I swear, if the devs would just listen to what the players are telling them is wrong with the game, we wouldnt have so many problems as we do now.
In their defense - 100 out of 100 customers will each want different things. This is a hard learned thing, as I have learned by being in Retail hell - But you can't pleasesome fast enough, nor can you EVER please everyone. What a Carbineer says needs to be fixed isn't the same as a TKM says. Mind you, they aren't doing anything NEAR fast enough, but maybe we should all band together and select the top 10 things by consensus, and demand those be fixed first and foremost.
Atama
Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:17 am
#11
"I like contructive critisiam but my god read the freakin post and try to understand what i'm saying before you spout nonsence. IT'S JUST AN IDEA."
And your idea is a bad one because it's based on misconceptions. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you don't post.
kypster
Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:49 am
#12
Are you basically saying that you want say a FRS system for TKM whereas, the more you kill in PvP, they better you get, level wise?
Or somewhat like pilot with prestige points?
Message Edited by kypster on 01-04-2005 11:51 AM
ValcynChiana
Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:16 am
#13
________________________________________________________________________
3.Allow medics to heal mind like they used to be able to. Mind is a major problem in pvp, and basically makes classes that can get mind Dots, or can attack mind directly, the only viable pvp classes.
Ah, but if we are eliminating (Or limiting) the amount and strength of DOT weapons, we already HAVE a class that fits the bill - Combat Medics, which makes perfect sense.
________________________________________________________________________
The thing is, combat medics cant heal their own mind.
Take the following scenario:
A Rifleman or Swordsmanwith medic skills against a Fencer or pikeman with medic skills.
The Fencer/pikeman cannot attack mind, but only action and health. The Rifleman and swordsman can both attack and concentrate high damage on mind. The rifleman and swordsman can also use medic to heal their action/health, the only pools their enemy can attack, however the fencer and pikeman cannot heal the damage a rifleman or swordsman is dealing to them.
By making one pool unhealable, they've completely unbalanced combat. Only the classes which can attack mind are used in pvp anymore. Rifleman, TKA, and to an extent swordsman, are all top pvp choices because of damage output and the ability to attack an unhealable pool. This makes it much harder for other professions to compete in pvp.
Personally, the most fun i have dueling is TKM vs TKM, no weapons, no armor, nousing any skills aside from tk,with mind buffs and standard buffs (to get all three bars about the same).
This makes for a fight that relies almost completely on skill, and not at all on super weapons or armor, who can heal more, or anything else.
TKA, being able to attack any pool specifically (though they are rather weak attacks), and being able to use all states and a variety of tactics to win, makes that the fairest fight you'll ever see.
I'm just tired of PvP being a match of whoever's got the rarest weapons or the best template. All i'm saying is that Every combat template should have an equal ability to fight in pvp, and it should rely more on skill to win. You get some guy who loots a 700 damage mindfire pike, or someone who has 90% armor, and they're nearly unbeatable, even if they know nothing about playing their profession.
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