Teras Kasi Archive

Almost master DOC/TKA here... and the more I see this the more I notice...

Tanking as it has been seen in other games is not possible in SWG.

Why? MIND Damage.

It used to be that you could tank if you had a healer around, but at present there is NO WAY to heal mind damage while in combat, so no matter what, if you are getting hit, you are going to go down after your mind runs out.

Why? MIND Damage.

Now people have tried to get around this, but if you are PvP or PvE, you are going to take damage to your mind pool. So what do we see? We see melee "TANKS" running around with HUGE mind pools, and barely any other stats.

So where does this leave us? I don't have any clue =p

I'm not trying to call foul or unfair or whatever, I'm just making a statement that as is, the game is not allowing to previous palystyles to be supported. As soon as the KD/PC timer goes in, there will be no more PC tanking.

If you want a tank, get a pet is going to be the response.

It worries me posting something like this because intead of getting a way for TKA to tank again, it's going to get CH nerfed so that pet's CAN'T tank.

So again, if anyone has ideas on how to actually have tanks in combat after the KD timer goes in, I'd love to see ideas.

TKA-M

DOC-4-4-3-3

Hmmmm..... i was thinking about this mind dmg thing. What if..... they gave All melee Classes a way to channel the mind dmg to another stat. Say health or action that would make it more usefull for a melee class to tank buy ajusting there stats so they have almost no mind and lots of health and action.

Just an idea.

spices

One of the problems in SWG is, that if you pull, normally more than 1 mob will come. And posture changes are the only form of CC in this game.

But the main problem with KS is (and other posture changes): they do 2 things at a time:

• put target temporarily out of the fight (which is called crowed control and IS needed)
  
• make target helpless (which is not what is intended, because a group could with KD spam fight high level mobs without serious danger)

Possible Solution
How about introducing a new form of CC: Knock Out
which makes a target unconscious for x secondsOR till it gets hit (whatever comes first).
And give this to melee classes only. Then they have a role in combat and because they have to reach the target, this ability will be less imbalancing.
And THEN let the timer on KD.

Strategy (PvE)

• Group pulls some big Mob, with BAF (bring a friend) 3-4 mobs attack
  
• ranged weapon users use KD /posture changes on targets to immobilize them for short
  
• melees rush in to make the targets unconcious
  
• group (leader) picks one target at a time

Then we will see a little bit more strategy in group combat besides.

Other suggetions would be:

• snare (decrease movement speed of target) / root (freeze target in place; it can still attack, but not move) attack styles

The reason to give it only to melee classes would be:

• give melee classes a reason (well played ones): main CC
  
• this kind of support would only work , if combined with ranged CC (otherwise the melees would be dead, while trying to knock out the attacking mobs)
  
• melees cannot misuse it too heavily, because it they hit the target once more, the effect is off. and they need to be close to the target to knock it out.
  
• melee will have some way to counter the BAF mobs (bring a friend mobs)

Possibletweak parameters:

• duration (perhaps different skills at higher levels with longer duration)
  
• resistance
  
• diminished returns (x seconds after first hit; x/2 seconds after second)

And yes, this idea is stolen from other MMORPGS, but at the moment, the strategy around group combat in SWG is non existant (IMHO) and with KD/posture changesessentielly removed from the game as form of CC it only will get worse.

just my thoughts

Ok a few questions on that...

First, CC = ??

Next, I love the Knockout idea, but the problem with a move like that for a TKA is that if you are in combat, you are gonna hit them right after using the move, So if there was a move like that, it would have to be something that didn't cause any damage and did not put you into combat mode with the mob.

It is very possible to only get 1 or 2 mobs with pulls, the trick is that YOU don't start the combat, the mob does. The only problem with this is that it's only good on argo mobs.

I think that KD worked fine on the TKA side originally, the only problem was that the resistances to it were too low.

I mean, a MASTER TKA would still get knocked down 99% of the time whenever the move was used on them.

For PvE, If the resistances were tweaked leaving the HAM costs alone, that would have been fine.

For PvP, it's all screwed up. First of all, no one in their right mind would draw a gun at point blank range on someone who was a master at close quarters combat. They would get owend, almost every time, unless they got off a few lucky shots. People go out and duel someone then complain about losing? HELLO?!? It's a DUEL, if you wanted to have a fair fight, you should start the duel as far away as you would from a regular mob.

What to the mobs do? Well a Mauler Master will whip out his gun as soon as he sees you and start plugging you for 400+ DMG while you are running up to him. You make it to him, you beat him down. IF you make it to him. (but keep in mind that HUGE axe he has is not for show)

It's a trade off. The entire idea of unarmed combat is not just doing damage to the other person, but keeping that person from doing damage to you.

But, with the changes that have been and will be put on KD, I guess the points above are all moot =p

Uups, sorry :-)

CC = Crowd Control. Most other MMORPGs have it in the form of:

• stun
  targetcant do anything whileit is "stunned". A stun wont break if target takes damage


• mezz
  target cant do anything while it is "mezzed". A mezz will break if target takes damage


• root
  target cannot move while "rooted" - it can still attack. A root will break if target takes damage


• snare
  target moves slower

Normally, stun has a very short duration and mezz/root/snare a longer one. If targets come in groups, a good player team can neutralize them and deal with them.

KD is a stun, which can be infinite (cause of spamming). That is the problem.
Therefore, IF they nerf KD, SOE should bring new forms of CC in the game.

Especially snare and root would be interesting for melee classes...

They should be zero damage attacks and you are right: they shouldt put you in combat mode.

I think, this would help a lot, but well, I dont think, SOE will do such things in SWG.

My bad, I should have know what you ment by CC.

again, good ideas, an effective fighter is in the business of keeping themself from being hurt, not just hurting something they are fighting.

Tanking is not possible unless your an AT-ST.

Teras Kasi are cheerleaders. We flash our pretty glowy fists, but in the end, we're just for a little giggle.

"An effective fighter is in the business of keeping themself from being hurt, not just hurting something they are fighting."

.... Well said, FlameWulf.

And no, I don't believe that PC tanking is possible in Galaxies. The price of damage reduction is too high (read: armor encumbrance), there's no significant evasive abilities (TKA getsa pathetic+32 to Melee Defense), and no PC can ever have an unmodified HAM over 1300 (and certainly not in all three pools at the same time).

Ironically, the best tank would be a Mon Cal Master Doctor with maxed mind stats, massively medicated physical stats and a belly full of food & drink. That character could just stand there and keep throwing stim's on him/herself and be nigh-unkillable.

By "nigh-unkillable," I mean "may take 3 head shots before dropping."

Oh, and is everyone else noticing that many of the (vocal) TK Masters tend to be Trandoshan Creature Handling Medics?

I'm thinking the reasons are that since we can't tank, we have to go Dr. Doolittle and have dumb critters there to soak hits for us.

Apparently, unless you're a lizard and have a zoo following you around, you're just a sub-standard martial artist on the slow track to Mastery.

::TANGENT IN PROGRESS::

Just where are the canon examples of Creature Handlers in Star Wars? By that, I don't mean for you to point out the beasts of burden or mounts that have appeared in the various films. They weren't being handled, just rode around on.

I'm talking about people like that fat grungy guy living under Jabba's throne room who fed the rancor. He was a Creature Handler.

Q: Is tanking possible in SWG?

A: I hope not!

As a TKA, I am very concerned about how we function in PvP and PvE, and how we stack up as finesse and solo players. We need some attention, and soon. However, do I think that this is EQ in space, and we should be able to sit up front, armoured to the teeth, and fight melee while the ranged players have their fun? Hell, no! This isn't D&D and we aren't Paladins.

I have no respect for anyone who refers to Teras Kasi ARTISTS as "tanks". That implies mindless activity, much like what goes on in the skulls of those who use the term often.