Tailor Archive

Thread: Non-tailor's opinion on the socket situation

jfang
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:24 am
#1




To begin with, let me say that I am not a tailor, and have no intentions of picking it up. As a non-tailor, my opinion is that the reduction of sockets was a good thing. The not getting input before the change was good as well, preventing the massive stockpiling of 4 socketed items in preparation for the "nerf". The only problems were the implementation (a master using good tools is not more likely to create socketed items), the timing (since clothing currently never vanishes, no reason to buy an inferior item), and the lack of communication to the player base (I only knew of the change because I happened to check the tailor forums).


It makes sense to me that a perfect gunman's duster should be hard to get and I should pay more for it(much like a 14 BER fusion ion generator, or a "perfect" laser carbine). I placed an order for a 4 socketed gunman's duster. When my tailor came back the next day saying "I made 10 of the things, but the best I could get was 3 sockets)", I told her I understood, and paid the cost for the 10 "failed" attempts (without being asked to), and bought the duster anyway(it seems reasonable to me, as they were made for me).


I hope that if the devs do undo this bug-fix, they will re-do it later (after clothing decay, so there can be equipment turnover), and again not announce it until the day of the patch (announcing it when it happens). It will be chaotic for a month or two. However, after everything settles down, and people no longer expect perfect clothing for cheap, I think the system will be better overall. Is it really unreasonable for a perfect shirt to cost 30k rather than 3k, seeing how those who really need 4 sockets (rather than only want it) are the same people who pay 5 million for a krayt gun. If nothing else, this will provide tailors a way to distinguish themselves. "I always shop here. Sure it costs 4 times as much, but you can always find the 4 socketed item you need."


Now, if they could only do the same and cap buff strength to be 1000, armor to be 40% effectiveness maximum pre-sliced, and make harvesters decay over time...
GonkSevenT3
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:32 am
#2

I think you make a very valid point about the stockpiling. I never thought of that. The socket issue really doesn't impact my business, so I'm not upset about it. Most all of the people I've interaccted with since the "nerf" have been just as understanding as you. Seems only the l337 d00dz are the one's who are upset about it.



"How can you be so serious on a film where you are dodging explosions and running away with Sir Alec Guinness on this side and an eight-foot monkey on this side, and the eight-foot monkey is the one flying the spaceship?" ~Mark Hamill
NJ62
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:36 am
#3

While I agree that certain items are worth more than others based on quality, realize that:



  1. we have no control over the number of sockets and

  2. we don't crate-produce

If an armorsmith gets good materials, he can expect more quality results. Not the case for us. If an armorsmith gets a crit fail (which happens entirely too often) - eh no biggie, try a few more times and do a crate run. We can't do crate runs because of the variety of items and colors.


These two factors make this issue quite frustrating and annoying.




n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player

All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
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Tristine
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:36 am
#4

Yes, what a wonderful post! Very good points, well thought out. Sockets don't affect me much at all either, but
someday it might.. if my customer base were to ever shift.


I don't know why, but this post really just made me smile.





Enoe Ador
"There was a place of my dreams... and I called it home once."
Former Mayor of the once glorious Lel Gyvon

ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:33 am
#5






jfang wrote:




To begin with, let me say that I am not a tailor, and have no intentions of picking it up. As a non-tailor, my opinion is that the reduction of sockets was a good thing... (snip)


I placed an order for a 4 socketed gunman's duster... (snip)




Ok, I don't buy this at all. Well, I do agree at least with your point about announcing it. I've said all along that announcing it would only hurt us (in several ways). But as far as you saying that the socket nerf was a good thing, and then saying that you yourself are a socket-concious customer, oh boy, I sure can't agree with that. You talk about a BER 14 fusion. Well, there are two very big differences here. The first difference is that when they made that change to architects experimentationthey *increased* the top yields of harvesters. That's right, the fusions and harvesters that were made before the change were far far far inferior to the ones made after the change. In fact, they were so far inferior that my old heavies actually have smaller yields than the new mediums do! So let's apply that concept to tailoring. If they were to do the same thing to us they would say"ok, we start with 4 sockets and then there is a random distribution on top of that such that say 8 sockets was difficult to achieve". That's difference #1. Difference #2 is the fact that an architect controls the quality of their products. They have the ability to select what materials will give them the quality that they desire, and they have the ability to get the necessary experimentation points to make it happen (including crafting aprons and other skill tapes). Tailors do not have this opportunity.


Also, while it's nice of you to agree to pay 10x the price of a gunman's duster in an attempt to get a 4 socket one, surely you understand that such a thing is not the norm.




ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:55 am
#6






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:





jfang wrote:




To begin with, let me say that I am not a tailor, and have no intentions of picking it up. As a non-tailor, my opinion is that the reduction of sockets was a good thing... (snip)


I placed an order for a 4 socketed gunman's duster... (snip)




Ok, I don't buy this at all. Well, I do agree at least with your point about announcing it. I've said all along that announcing it would only hurt us (in several ways). But as far as you saying that the socket nerf was a good thing, and then saying that you yourself are a socket-concious customer, oh boy, I sure can't agree with that. You talk about a BER 14 fusion. Well, there are two very big differences here. The first difference is that when they made that change to architects experimentationthey *increased* the top yields of harvesters. That's right, the fusions and harvesters that were made before the change were far far far inferior to the ones made after the change. In fact, they were so far inferior that my old heavies actually have smaller yields than the new mediums do! So let's apply that concept to tailoring. If they were to do the same thing to us they would say"ok, we start with 4 sockets and then there is a random distribution on top of that such that say 8 sockets was difficult to achieve". That's difference #1. Difference #2 is the fact that an architect controls the quality of their products. They have the ability to select what materials will give them the quality that they desire, and they have the ability to get the necessary experimentation points to make it happen (including crafting aprons and other skill tapes). Tailors do not have this opportunity.


Also, while it's nice of you to agree to pay 10x the price of a gunman's duster in an attempt to get a 4 socket one, surely you understand that such a thing is not the norm.







Harvesters yes. Fusion Ions no. Used to be able to make a BER23 Fusion Ion…not anymore. But other than that good points.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:42 am
#7






Syzygy-Gorath wrote:


Harvesters yes. Fusion Ions no. Used to be able to make a BER23 Fusion Ion…not anymore. But other than that good points.





Hmm, I'm at a loss. When they changed architect so that their experimentation mattered I had a fusion harvester already. Then when all the stats suddenly appeared on them I think all my heavies had BER 8 and the fusion had like BER 10 or something. I had to completely re-purchase my entire line of harvesters to get competitive ones, including the fusion. Everyone was selling BER 13 fusions at that time. Then only weeks/months later did I start seeing the BER 14 fusions starting to become more common.


If what you say is true, where are these BER23fusions? Wouldn't there be an enormous "pre-nerf" fusion harvester market right now?





ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:47 am
#8






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:





Syzygy-Gorath wrote:


Harvesters yes. Fusion Ions no. Used to be able to make a BER23 Fusion Ion…not anymore. But other than that good points.





Hmm, I'm at a loss. When they changed architect so that their experimentation mattered I had a fusion harvester already. Then when all the stats suddenly appeared on them I think all my heavies had BER 8 and the fusion had like BER 10 or something. I had to completely re-purchase my entire line of harvesters to get competitive ones, including the fusion. Everyone was selling BER 13 fusions at that time. Then only weeks/months later did I start seeing the BER 14 fusions starting to become more common.


If what you say is true, where are these BER23fusions? Wouldn't there be an enormous "pre-nerf" fusion harvester market right now?








The way I understand it, the FI BER change was sudden, and they hadn't been able to make BER23s for very long, so they're out there, but they're pretty rare. I believe they run about 10 mil per, assuming you can even find someone willing to part with theirs. *shrugs* Sounds a bit like the BE mixup, only less capitolized upon.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

jfang
Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:06 pm
#9






My first comment is that tailor skill level (presumably experimentation) should and must affect the sockets in the final product. This is not implemented in the current framework, and that is a bug which should be addressed. If that was not clear in the original statement, I apologize. I think a better system would be something like a master has a 25% chance of 4 sockets, 25% for 3 sockets, and 40% chance for 2 sockets, and 5% for 1 and 0. Whereas a novice might have a 5% for 4 sockets, and 60% for 1 socket. I just want the chances for 4 sockets to be relatively low, even at master level.


The second is that of course consumers don't *want* to pay 10 times the base price for a 4 socketed items. Consumers want to have all they clothes they want, right now, for free. However, if the only 4 socketed shirts for sale on the whole server were for sale for 50K or even 100K, do you think that somebody who spent 10 million for a +10 weapon experimentation tape, 3 million for a +8 carbine speed tape, or 5 million for a well sliced krayt T21 will bat an eye at the price? They will complain about it (trying to get a lower price, and used to getting it for 4K), and try to hold out for a while for a better deal from another tailor. But push come to shove the 50K is pocket change for them, and if no tailor will sell it for cheaper (either because they won't, or they can't), that consumer will buy the shirt and never look back. The problem is that both they, and tailors, are used to having easy access to 4 socketed items, so the market prices reflects the "old" economy.


Assuming the bug fix is not rolled back, after a few weeks, you'll see tailors getting frustrated about trying to make 4 socket items, and start raising the prices, a market for "non-perfect" items will appear, and other ultimately good changes come about (at least in an ideal world this would happen). I personally want 4 sockets in clothing, but a 2 socketed item would work fine for me (which is why I bought the 3 socket gunman's duster), and I know the majority of players are in the same boat as me. How many people except the power gamer has 4 skill tapes they absolutely *need* to have in a single article of clothing (and if they do, how much do you think they spent on their tapes)?
Gyopi
Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:09 am
#10






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:


If what you say is true, where are these BER23fusions? Wouldn't there be an enormous "pre-nerf" fusion harvester market right now?




I have never seen BER23, but I have a BER16 one. I don't think many people are giving the old ones up.








Momoko--Master Tailor near Kaadara on Lowca--
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