Tailor Archive

Thread: Thank you Arthur

Dahliaa
Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:48 am
#1

"They really are taking our $15 and spending it to enhance other people's game experience and there is a fairness issue there."



I didn't want to take away from N'Jessi's thread so I made a seperate post. Your comment that I quoted above rang so true to me I almost lest out a scream (I don't think my boss would have appreciated that...LOL). I feel so exasperated with the state of tailoring....I don't know what to do anymore. I have more customers then I know what to do with but I have no desire to be at people's beck & call. I have noticed more & more players wanting hours of personal attention. I am using afk now more than I was a year ago because I can't get anything done. Arthur your posts have always made me feel like I am not alone in how I feel about the state of things.

Thank you!
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:07 am
#2

Well, I appreciate it. Actually though, that particular statement I more or less plagerized from Sre'dni (so I'll give him credit for it) but it's (obviously) how I feel as well. As a software developer myself, I can understand how they are looking at their development priorities, and there is a certain logic to it. But I think they are ignoring the "fairness" issue with regards to an awful lot of players. This will end up hurting them imho if they are not careful.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


ShosuroHametsu
Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:30 pm
#3

Their priorities should be with the stated wants of their customer base and not with the direction the devs want to lead us. I'm tired of all their time and resources being spent on Jedi and JTL. I'm not going to make a jedi character and will probably not play their space arcade expansion.


On the flip side, I've been paying $30 a month (two accounts) for over a year. Istill have no idea when they will find time or resources to fix bugs and balance issues, that affect me and the majority of current players.


UO lost most of it's player base when they changed to the same type of focus on new and forced content before repairs to existing systems. It ruined their game and will do the same with SWG if it continues.


I don't want new content before you repair the existing game. I don't want new content, even ifyou think its great, if the majority of the players think it's wrong.


Listen to your customers. Respond to their wants and needs. You're lucky to have them.
Alciril
Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:58 pm
#4

I also think that the game is going in the wrong direction as far as development priorities go. There's a great piece about managing online communities here. It's a bit long, but the author makes some really, really good points. If you're bored and have some time, I'd say it's definitely worth skimming over. Here's an excerpt:






Who Am I?


The psychological makeup of hundreds of thousands of players could be broken down into any number of groupings and categories to help explain behavior and objectives.
For the purposes of this book, we'll simplify and break it into three broad categories.


Players who don't fall into one of these three areas are usually considered "general" players. General players are fairly neutral. They obey the rules, play the game, and might help out when they see someone who needs help. They aren't nasty and they aren't pillars of your community. They're regular "Joes." It's important to note that there is gray area between these types. The categories that follow are generalizations. Please don't expect all your players to neatly line up into the areas we've listed. It won't happen that neatly, we promise.


Barbarians


The barbarians are the "problem children" of online gaming. Their objectives vary, but one thing is consistent: They don't care what you or anyone else thinks.


Barbarians don't care about your intricately conceived game mechanics or your well thought-out player justice and accountability systems, or whether or not exploiting a bug is cheating. These are the "griefers," players who love the anonymity of the Internet and whose main enjoyment comes from ruining other players' experiences.


They are the bug exploiters who don't care if duplicating gold, weapons, armor, or whatever requires them to flood attack your routers and crash a server. It doesn't bother them that thousands of others have their game interrupted.


Barbarians are the cheaters, script kiddies, account hackers, client hackers, and "k&wl d00ds," whose objectives are not socialization with friends in a game, but making sure they and their small group of other social misfits can giggle behind their hands as they stare at the monitor, happy to have caused heartache and pain to someone else.


Identifying barbarians is a critical task, one easier said than done. PWs, or those with servers under company control, have the advantage of logging activity. Problems can be verified and dealt with at a later time. In free-play peer-to-peer games, such as Diablo II or Age of Empires, it is almost impossible. The collective intelligence of client hackers and the anonymity of the Internet make it difficult for a developer to take action. This is why peer-to-peer games have such poor attendance online compared to sales; when the client hacks show up, the honest players give up in disgust. The same is true for PWs when bad behavior goes unchecked.


For some, the raw intensity of the "virtual psychopath" that many barbarians represent can be refreshing in its novelty. At first, some who encounter them react as though they are cute online versions of Hannibal Lecter. Soon after meeting barbarians, they notice what is missing from the comparison: education, erudition, and the ability to function in society. In fiction, Dr. Lecter's victims had some reason for becoming his entrees. Barbarians will eat your customers without any provocation or remorse. They are more akin to the mass murderer in the Richard Pryor movie who, when asked why he murdered all those people, replied, "They was home." Barbarians are a statistically small group. However, they do a lot of damage to games.


Reroute them or get them out of the game. It's that simple. The only players who will shed a tear at the banishment of griefers are other griefers.


The bottom line: Barbarians will drive customers away faster than Attila could jump on his horse.



Citizens


The citizen is the crown jewel of any online game. Think of these players as the good people you know in the real world. In a game setting, these are the people most likely to take new players under their wing, take part in role-playing events, lend their in-game cash and resources to a greater cause, and always have a civil word for passersby.


Moreover, they are willing to obey the rules and play the game "realistically" (according to your vision) and in-character and encourage others to do so as well. Their objectives are to create a legend for themselves, but not at the expense of the game or other players. They want the whole game and all the players to survive and thrive within the world you've created.


The citizen usually strives to become a community leader. If there is no political or diplomatic portion to the game, they'll create one from whole cloth and convince others to participate. They become player advocates, game advocates, and at times, can create around themselves a cult of personality that becomes more vibrant and important than the game itself.


Citizens are pure gold. They keep others in the game. Please remember that the citizens deserve your attention. They aren't your squeaky wheels (like your problem children), and it's easy to overlook them. Attention given to the citizens has a huge impact on the world. It benefits the entire community. Do not fall into the trap we've faced before where you spend so much time responding to the fires caused by your problem players that your good players feel neglected. Over time, the neglected good players become barbarians themselves.


We've been there and we've done it. It hurts the game. Learn from our mistakes.





I'll go out on a limb and say that most tailors are citizens. We're generally social, play by the rules, and can communicate with others. And what's happening to us? Nothing. The barbarians are being catered to in SWG.




Alciril, Master Tailor
"Alciril's Clothing Creations is located south of Coronet, Corellia at (-315, -5780)
"Tailoring-related components (fiber panels, synthetic cloth, trim) always in stock!
"Custom orders welcome! Please see me for any of your tailoring needs!

Syzygy-Gorath
Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:27 am
#5

Speaking from the perspective of someone who's developed for an online multiplayer game…yup. Plug the holes as quickly as possible, punish the "barbarians" swiftly and harshly, and get back to serving the parts of the community that are worth serving. (Or you could try to push an expansion for an unfinished product that will simply divert more time to fixing the inevitable problems that're associated with it…)



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

ASrai
Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:53 am
#6

Alciril, thanks for that great link. I agree that for the most part Tailors and the true entertainers are the Citizens of SWG. We are the people that everyone likes, and the problem children like to abuse the most.



A'Srai Mizuho
Master Tailor/Master Artisian/Merchant

A'Srai's House of Fashion's
-1250, -4700 South of Bestine, Tatooine, Chilastra
Proud Member of Team Hawtpants

ShosuroHametsu
Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:51 am
#7

Thanks Alciril....thats a great post.....


I'd like to add.......


I spent six years playing UO. In that time I saw that the crafters and merchants were the "legs" of the game. They ran shops, started and ran communites, helped new players and generally played for many years. The combat oriented player, including barbarians, had a much shorter time before leaving for the next game. If the devs help those "citizens" to have a good gaming experience, those players will build the worlds.
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:27 am
#8


Barbarians are the cheaters, script kiddies, account hackers, client hackers, and "k&wl d00ds," whose objectives are not socialization with friends in a game, but making sure they and their small group of other social misfits can giggle behind their hands as they stare at the monitor, happy to have caused heartache and pain to someone else.



That really is a pretty interesting little article. My read is that his "Barbarians" roughly translate to Bartle's "killers" but not entirely (killer doesn't necessarily map to exploiter, but it maps more to griefer). The funny thing to me though is that when I think about what type of player group maps most closely to Barbarians it would have to be... what else?... Jedi. Owch, the irony, lol.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


lycanthropy
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:22 pm
#9

beautiful addition alciril,

i dont think its going out on the limb to say that alot of the tailoring community are citizens.

most tailors who run shops, enjoy trying on cloths and making sure others accually have some

dress style ingame have a very honest persona


on another note, Alciril is the master tailor who inspired me to pursue the tailoring career!




Madcow Disease! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:24 am
#10






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:


Barbarians are the cheaters, script kiddies, account hackers, client hackers, and "k&wl d00ds," whose objectives are not socialization with friends in a game, but making sure they and their small group of other social misfits can giggle behind their hands as they stare at the monitor, happy to have caused heartache and pain to someone else.



That really is a pretty interesting little article. My read is that his "Barbarians" roughly translate to Bartle's "killers" but not entirely (killer doesn't necessarily map to exploiter, but it maps more to griefer). The funny thing to me though is that when I think about what type of player group maps most closely to Barbarians it would have to be... what else?... Jedi. Owch, the irony, lol.


I've begun frequenting a few of the combat forums since starting a new mostly combat toon, and I've begun to see an interesting trend in naming conventions. It seems that people distinguish between Jedi and J3d-3y3…I would say that J3d-3y3 are definitely the embodiment of Barbarians in SWG. They've found the ultimate way to grief other players, and they're making the most of it. (Speaking of, has anyone else heard about the Jedi/Bounty Hunter /consent exploit? Ugly, ugly stuff.)




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

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