CUEmu - Thread Posts

NJ62

Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:41 pm

1. Do you find the current system of Synth cloth/rfp enhancing problematic? What are the specific problems?

2. How would you fix the current synth cloth/rfp system?

a. How would game balance be affected by this?

b. How would clothing choices be affected?

3. What additional tissues would you like to see? Why those tissues?

a. To which panels would you add those tissues?

b. How would that affect combat balance? Crafting balance?

c. Would all professions be fairly represented?

d. Would these compete too heavily with skill tapes?

Feel free to add anything you think is important. I think that BE clothing will have a lot to do wtih the CB, and as such I want to have a good detailed summary of what we want to see before the correspondent summit. (And if the BE's have a list, please linkie it up for me. I'll try to have a chat with NancyJ before the summit so we're all on the same page.)

n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player
All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
PLEASE REGISTER FOR THE SWGTAILOR OFFSITE FORUM (IMAGE DESIGNERS WELCOME TOO)

hakk

Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:01 pm

#2

1. It's not a big problem. The only thing that can annoy me is that i often run out of synthetic clothes since some items can require up to 6 synthetic clothes.

2. Remove some synthetic clothes and add some reinforced fiber panels.

2a. Tailor would have more to sell to armorsmiths and might be able to lower the price on it. everybody wins!

2b. Don't think there would be any diffrence...

3. I would like to see like dizzy defense/knockdown defense bio enchantment.

3a. synth clothes or reinforced fiber panels

3b. Ranged professions would acctually have a bigger chance against TKM. A TKM master just have to do dizzy and knockdown and can then take forever to kill i.e. a pistoleer cause he wont be able to get up.

3b. No

mabajsass @ chimaera

Bounty Hunter>

Credit Is my faction

ArthurDentOnBria

Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:35 pm

#3

NJ62 wrote:
1. Do you find the current system of Synth cloth/rfp enhancing problematic? What are the specific problems?

very much so. The stacking rules seem completely arbitrary, and what it leads to is a case where people are encouraged to choose from a tiny subset of clothing rather than the full catelog. This hurts immersion, and ultimately hurts the tailors.

2. How would you fix the current synth cloth/rfp system?
Change it so that you no longer sew bio tissues into synthetic cloth or rfp, but rather straight into the clothing. Also change it so that any item of clothing (boots & gloves included)can have exactly 1 such optional bio tissue sewn into it.

a. How would game balance be affected by this?

I don't think "bonus-wise" this would have a huge impact. No more +25 items, but instead more items that could have "single bonus" pluses. Also a good thing for bio engineers because now "quality matters" and it becomes more of a challenge.

b. How would clothing choices be affected?

There would no longer be this stupidity where someone *must* chose a leather trim shirt to get +25 medical for example, or *must* chose the low-cut top over the small bustier, and now someone wanting to look a certain way and have certain bonuses would be free to excersise their creativity in choosing an outfit. Would be a very positive thing for the game imho.

3. What additional tissues would you like to see? Why those tissues?
surveying bonus

artisan experimentation

terrain negotiation

slicing bonus (for smugglers)

combat medicine effectiveness (cm equivalent of the current doctor healing bonuses)

something for squad leaders (dunno what)

droid tracking/speed (bounty hunters)

battle fatigue/mind buffingbonuses

seperate tissues for poison, disease, knockdown, blind, dizzy defense

These are commoly requested tissues in areas that are sort of underserved by current bio tissues, and I wouldn't consider these to be "unbalancing" in that they have similarities to other bonuses we already offer. Also, we really really need some offering for artisans as bio tissues offer them absolutely nothing right now.

a. To which panels would you add those tissues?

Neither, see above.

b. How would that affect combat balance? Crafting balance?

I don't think any of these really do. They just offer things to classes that we currently have no offerings to, and I think are similar enough to others we do offer to justify them balance-wise.

c. Would all professions be fairly represented?
that is the idea.

d. Would these compete too heavily with skill tapes?
Gawd, I hope so, lol. I can't see how a lesser reliance on "loot campers" providing skill tapes would be anything but a huge positive for the game.

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%

Elhana

Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:53 pm

#4

1. The biggest problem from my point of view is having to explain to80% ofmy customers the basics of how BE items are made, whats available, what items can be BE'd and what can't.

Would be nice if there were some sort of ingame guide on the basics, a holoclothier which shows BE options or even an ingame item that you could make like a book telling customers what's available. Some of these won't be popular for various reasons but we could really use something instead of people having to make elaborate show houses almost solely used to tell the customer what is and isn't possible.

2. Firstly allow both cloth and rfp bonuses to stack when multiples are used in a single slot. One major benefit of this is to make lower level tissues useful, allow a much wider range of items that can get the maximum bonus, reduce the overall costs by being able to use cheaper tissues in some situations to reach the maximum and give novice / low level BE's items that aren't the best but still useful and will sell better than they currently do.

2a. With cloth tissues it wouldn't really imbalance things, just give greater range of items that can give the maximum bonus and overall use less tissues. For rfp items it would allow players to wear a greater amount of bonuses but with the current rfp slot numbers it would only make jackets twice as effective, maxing out most of the bonuses and the rfp bodysuits would be almost totally maxed out no matter the tissue. The only slight problem might be bodysuits getting upto +24 melee defence. Though wearing one would limit what other BE items they could wear at the same time meaning it might balance out ok.

2b. Greater range of "maxed" items for the customer to choose from. Tactical choice of clothing (pants, shirt, jacket + bandolier versus bodysuit and bandolier).

3. I'm not sure on this one as I'm not very familiar with the combat skills and mods. Though the suggested above ones sound ok.

One thing I'd like to add is what about considering making BE tissues a 2 sided system. At the moment the BE's do all the work and we just add them into normal pieces of clothing. What if we had to experiment on the tissues as they get made into cloth/rfp's? Or we get to infulence part of their final effectiveness in the item. Not really thought about it much as I only just came accross the thought a few minutes ago.

Val'rel Shia
Master Tailor & Master Dancer
Part of [The Firm] Superstore 1200m west of Mos Entha [80 x 3254]
Chimaera

ASrai

Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:09 pm

#5

I think Arthur hit the nail on the head! I will add a few of my own comments as well.

ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

NJ62 wrote:
1. Do you find the current system of Synth cloth/rfp enhancing problematic? What are the specific problems?

very much so. The stacking rules seem completely arbitrary, and what it leads to is a case where people are encouraged to choose from a tiny subset of clothing rather than the full catelog. This hurts immersion, and ultimately hurts the tailors.

The use of tissues in RFP or Synth cloth also severly limits the amount of bonuses available to our big furry friends. Especially RFP since there is like what 2 items that Wooks can wear with RFP tissues.

2. How would you fix the current synth cloth/rfp system?
Change it so that you no longer sew bio tissues into synthetic cloth or rfp, but rather straight into the clothing. Also change it so that any item of clothing (boots & gloves included)can have exactly 1 such optional bio tissue sewn into it.

I couldn't agree more here. If every schematic (except for jewelry) had an optional slot for a BE tissue, we could offer a lot more choices in style and color, making clothing a much more viable choice over armor. This would also save an enormous amount of frustration, time, and money spent trying to come up with a viable list of items to stack tissues in, getting a crit fail, and losing 2-6 very expensive tissues.

a. How would game balance be affected by this?

I don't think "bonus-wise" this would have a huge impact. No more +25 items, but instead more items that could have "single bonus" pluses. Also a good thing for bio engineers because now "quality matters" and it becomes more of a challenge.

This change would also be good for the novice BE I believe. No more having to hunt huge amount of resources to make a factory run of tissues for us, so we in turn have to make a factory run of cloths.

3. What additional tissues would you like to see? Why those tissues?

d. Would these compete too heavily with skill tapes?

Gawd, I hope so, lol. I can't see how a lesser reliance on "loot campers" providing skill tapes would be anything but a huge positive for the game.

This may or may not happen. From the tailor stand point, I could see this as a good thing. No more worries about sockets (problem there solved :smileyhappy, but the angry screams of the gun bunnies would be deafening if we harmed their precious SEA market. Make some of the current bonuses from tapes into tissues, while leaving others alone and still a rare item.

A'Srai Mizuho
Master Tailor/Master Artisian/Merchant
A'Srai's House of Fashion's
-1250, -4700 South of Bestine, Tatooine, Chilastra
Proud Member of Team Hawtpants

Srednii

Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:32 pm

#6

hmm, what sort of BE improvments would I like to see...

Well currently 90% of the value for BE clothing comes from the BE side of things. Normal pants 1500 credits. BE enhanced pants 25k. And to me that's just wrong, it hurts tailors because the only thing of real value we have to sell is totally and utterly dependant and reliant on another class. No other classes product derives most of it'svalue from the components they get from other classes.A tailor who can't find a BE to buy tissues from isn't mildly disadvantaged, he loses 90% of his clothings value.

I'd like to see this reversed somehow. I'd like to see components we need to buy from other proffessions have the same value the components we sell to other classes have. Don't ask me how cause I don't know how to do it. To be honest I don't think it can be done without taking tissues away from BE's, and that's not going to happen. I also don't think the devs care enough about tailors to even try to think of a solution.

and so, beyond that big issue:

1) Not enough selection in bonuses. Tissues are too complicated and exepensive to make, thus making it hard for tailors to find and buy them from BE's. Not enough clothing selection available to be enhanced.

2) I'd make tissues easier to make. Change the organic requirements (ie: meat) to inorganics. And to fix the lack of clothing selection I'd make it so tissues arn't added to synth cloth or rfp's at all, but to have instead an optional component on all clothing itself (like how I can add NS shards to armor optionally during crafting). I'd also make both the synth cloth versions and rfp versions doubleable to +25.

a) meh. I think after seeing how jedi work everyone is aware the devs don't care about balance. So they can not care about it in our favor IMHO.

b) no longer would everyone who uses a BE enhanced shirt be limited to the same goddamned shirt. 100% positive, again IMHO.

3) Additional tissues for everything, screw skill tapes. Tissues that add to HAMs and secondariesby a small amount to try to lower everyones complete and utter dependence on buffs. Tissues to resist diseases and poisons. Tissues to enhance terrain negotiation. Tissues for this, tissues for that. Tissues for everything.

a) As I said in #2, I'd change tissues to add directly to clothing as an optional enhancer, and have every article of clothing havetwo slots for optional enhancers.

b) meh

c) meh

d) As crafters we're not supposed to be competing with loot drops.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sre'dni Vashtar - Bria
sv Armoury -4976, 2712 Corellia

Srednii

Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:35 pm

#7

Srednii wrote:

d) As crafters we're not supposed to be competing with loot drops.

I'd just like to emphasize this little tidbit.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sre'dni Vashtar - Bria
sv Armoury -4976, 2712 Corellia

Darth_Bravo

Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:13 pm

#8

BE hats with defence vs dizzy for Jedi

Dahr-t' Bravo tnnnntnxgggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

Orange 1h Lightsaber Wielder - Fashionable Jedi

Aradia1

Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:26 pm

#9

I'm gonna throw my vote in with Arthur and ASrai. I feel that both of them have said exactly what I meant by adding in more BE enhancements to the profession. Not to mention that Arthur's idea of the single slot w/o a cloth is miraculous and this would so fix the "socket" issue as well.

ASrai wrote:

I think Arthur hit the nail on the head! I will add a few of my own comments as well.

ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

NJ62 wrote:
1. Do you find the current system of Synth cloth/rfp enhancing problematic? What are the specific problems?

very much so. The stacking rules seem completely arbitrary, and what it leads to is a case where people are encouraged to choose from a tiny subset of clothing rather than the full catelog. This hurts immersion, and ultimately hurts the tailors.

The use of tissues in RFP or Synth cloth also severly limits the amount of bonuses available to our big furry friends. Especially RFP since there is like what 2 items that Wooks can wear with RFP tissues.

2. How would you fix the current synth cloth/rfp system?
Change it so that you no longer sew bio tissues into synthetic cloth or rfp, but rather straight into the clothing. Also change it so that any item of clothing (boots & gloves included)can have exactly 1 such optional bio tissue sewn into it.

I couldn't agree more here. If every schematic (except for jewelry) had an optional slot for a BE tissue, we could offer a lot more choices in style and color, making clothing a much more viable choice over armor. This would also save an enormous amount of frustration, time, and money spent trying to come up with a viable list of items to stack tissues in, getting a crit fail, and losing 2-6 very expensive tissues.

a. How would game balance be affected by this?

I don't think "bonus-wise" this would have a huge impact. No more +25 items, but instead more items that could have "single bonus" pluses. Also a good thing for bio engineers because now "quality matters" and it becomes more of a challenge.

This change would also be good for the novice BE I believe. No more having to hunt huge amount of resources to make a factory run of tissues for us, so we in turn have to make a factory run of cloths.

3. What additional tissues would you like to see? Why those tissues?

surveying bonus

artisan experimentation

terrain negotiation

slicing bonus (for smugglers)

combat medicine effectiveness (cm equivalent of the current doctor healing bonuses)

something for squad leaders (dunno what)

droid tracking/speed (bounty hunters)

battle fatigue/mind buffingbonuses

seperate tissues for poison, disease, knockdown, blind, dizzy defense

These are commoly requested tissues in areas that are sort of underserved by current bio tissues, and I wouldn't consider these to be "unbalancing" in that they have similarities to other bonuses we already offer. Also, we really really need some offering for artisans as bio tissues offer them absolutely nothing right now.

d. Would these compete too heavily with skill tapes?

Gawd, I hope so, lol. I can't see how a lesser reliance on "loot campers" providing skill tapes would be anything but a huge positive for the game.

This may or may not happen. From the tailor stand point, I could see this as a good thing. No more worries about sockets (problem there solved :smileyhappy, but the angry screams of the gun bunnies would be deafening if we harmed their precious SEA market. Make some of the current bonuses from tapes into tissues, while leaving others alone and still a rare item.

Aradia (Starsider)
Master Tailor
Master Artisan

Bri (Eclipse)
Master Dancer
Doctor in Training

Wire3k

Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:17 am

#10

Well, my .02 - this is what I suggested back when they really actually made BE mods 'work'.

The system as it stands now is just overtinked - leading to WAY too many storage demands, and that will only get worse if and when (and they really need to) add a bit more variety to the BE mod line.

Having the tissues in the cloth also restricts folks overly much on style choices vs. bonus benefits which has always been my biggest beef with the current system.

As far as balance - with the automatic character caps, there really isn't a heck of a lot of problem here as I see it. 25 isn't overpowering, indeed if you substitute this system one problem might be it could be potentially WEAKER than what we have now.

Instead of the convoluted system in place at the moment, God knows - I wasted 100x more time trying to explain the system than actually tailoring (why I made the website) I personally would much prefer additional slots on every schematic for the additives directly. This would do away with 'style' problems. So what if someone wants to dance in 'combat' clothing - or fight in dancewear? While some may say it's enforces realism - I still to this day think that should be the player's option and is overly restrictive. It also does away with the occassional loss at the clothmaking stage, which with bio mods can be VERY expensive. I am unaware of any other trade that takes as many chances to fail as BE modded clothing start to finish.

There are still gross limits on what can be worn with armor - this would however open up options to the player instead of the very few (and overly expensive) ones they have now in shirts.

It would also do away with unnecessary storage demands of all the various types of cloth and more importantly, do away with all the 'waste' sheets we currently have to deal with and the items that can't be enhanced at all. Since we'd likely get one slot for each on every piece (or at least that's what I'd recommend) you would no longer have single 'maxxed' pieces, however this should be able to be easily compensated for by other pieces which at the moment may not be able to be enhanced (or enhanced with the right stuff). Two slots for what is now synth - one for what is now reinforced bonuses would come closer to what we have right now. I doubt the synth type bonuses worry anyone for 'balance' - the reinforced they might see as a balance issue.

From the bio end, this also makes the lesser mods have a bit more value. As a bio/tailor for over a year - once I got to the highend mods - I've never made the lowerend ones.

www.swgbio.com
On-line clothing catalog for tailors, bio-engineers and their customers

www.swgbio.com/mom
MMO Musings - Random Observations and my best advice
www.swgbio.com/myadvice.wav

ItemCreator

Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:42 am

#11

I'm with Arthur and Asrai too. The current system is far too confusing both for novice tailors and customers. I used to dread getting /tells from people after BE clothing and became an 'undercover' tailor until I had read all the notes and articles about BE clothing that I could get my hands on!

Having an optional BE bonus slot in all clothing would make life so much easier for everyone concerned. No more wasted tissues and it will give BE's the challenge of creating the best tissues they can.

One tissue I think should be added is a DNA sampling bonus one, after all the profession making our tissues have no way of getting any bonuses at all at the moment. They deserve some love too!

Kel

~~~ Kelsaka Rymi ~~~

Clothing-Obsessed Elder Tailor of Infinity

Kelsaka's Clothing Boutique -6820 2700 Tyrsis, Naboo

(Maisaka ~ Outfits, Shasaka ~ Hunter, Teisaka ~ Fashion Armour)
(Survived 2 crafting trips to the DWB)

Elhana

Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:34 am

#12

ItemCreator wrote:
...
Having an optional BE bonus slot in all clothing would make life so much easier for everyone concerned. No more wasted tissues and it will give BE's the challenge of creating the best tissues they can.
...

It's a good idea and probably the ideal way to go but the one problem I see with it is to devalue the lower value tissues made as BE's are working their way up the skill tree. I mean right now there's a large focus on the high level tissues, practically any tissues under +12/13 are devalued as they can't be doubled up to max the bonus. It's ok if you could use them across several items to maximise your stats but that would depend on what items they allow to have those slots.

Adding a tissue slot to the various items sounds like a fairly complicated task, having to work out which items should have the slot, what type of slot if they go that way, and then coding all that in. As a short term fix allowing tissue mods to stack in cloth/rfp slot stacks would, I think be the best thig to do.

Val'rel Shia
Master Tailor & Master Dancer
Part of [The Firm] Superstore 1200m west of Mos Entha [80 x 3254]
Chimaera

TheNola

Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:26 am

#13

NJ62 wrote:
1. Do you find the current system of Synth cloth/rfp enhancing problematic? What are the specific problems? Not completely.

2. How would you fix the current synth cloth/rfp system? I believe there should be more clothing that require Reinforced Fiber Panels.

a. How would game balance be affected by this? I believe clothing with BE enhancements should give you many bonuses, making onea bit more efficient(ie, ranged / melee / KD defense, mask scent abilities, mind enhancements, etc).

b. How would clothing choices be affected? Maybe it is because I've been a tailor for so long, but I think our clothing choices are soo limited. I think it is time that we need more clothes (more choices).

Perhaps... only certain pieces of clothing allows a certain type of bonus? Like chef apron allows only a "food experimentation / assembly" bonus, etc.

3. What additional tissues would you like to see? Why those tissues? To name a few...

KD defense - In almost everything a person does, clothes make a difference.

Dance / Music Enhancements - Certainly a person will become more entertained with pretty clothes (Suit Shirts, Leotards, Gowns, etc.).

Poison Resistance - If a creature spits venom, a piece of clothing can act as a shield to the poison, as a barrier.

a. To which panels would you add those tissues? Poison Resistance --> RFP, Dance / Music Enhancements - Syn Cloth, KD Defense - RFP. (There are not a lot of clothes that require the RFP, however. More should be added)

b. How would that affect combat balance? Crafting balance? Doens't affect it too much. New tissues / bonuses in clothes may lower the insane prices of the clothing attachments though.

c. Would all professions be fairly represented? I don't think there will ever be full "fairness", but - I believe new tissues would make it less unfair.

d. Would these compete too heavily with skill tapes? No, not too heavily, but it would make a difference.

Feel free to add anything you think is important. I think that BE clothing will have a lot to do wtih the CB, and as such I want to have a good detailed summary of what we want to see before the correspondent summit. (And if the BE's have a list, please linkie it up for me. I'll try to have a chat with NancyJ before the summit so we're all on the same page.)

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Naia Draven
My own Lowca legend & tailor goddess
(-1324, -6265)
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Thread: Poll: what sort of BE improvements would you like to see?