Tailor Archive
Thread: Holo...When are we going to see changes. Tailors are you letting these issues die?
Holo,
I'm writing this in hopes that you will actually consider these issues to be important enough to SWG that you will answer. I've watched at all the furor died down and apparently everyone else has forgotten...but I haven't.
WHEN will we see clothing decay put into the game? I will tell you that I am very discourage by the lack of action on this issue. I'm disappointed in tailors who were up in arms last week, but now seem to be not so upset. I'm still upset. The reason I'm still upset is...
1. We recieve beautiful new colors on ONE palette. ALL other palettes remained the same and we can not make boots or gloves or coats to match the NEW colors. Folks haven't actually figured it out yet, but we can't make matching outfits...period.
2. I've seen mobs in the game that have on uniform jackets that WE can not make. We can't make them because their jackes have THREE colors...our are allowed TWO and they do not color correct.
3. We have BUGGED items that have been bugged since DAY ONE and they have NOT been fixed. If they have been fixed, you have bugged them another way. Pocketed shorts come to mind as well as the luxurious dress. Pocketed shorts were fixed...now we can only color their belts and belt buckles.
4. We were TOLD that decay would be put into the game...soon. Soon has come and gone and instead you fubared it by saying...it was taken out when it was NEVER in. Then you said...oh, we're looking for a way to make ALL things decay in the same manner. We've told you...here on these boards...that its not going to work that way...it can't work. As long as you waddle along at this rate we will see the advent of EQ2 and lose a lot of folks because you guys can't get it straight.
I'd LOVE to be happy about the things you do give us. I'd really LOVE to come to these boards and post a happy, appreciative post. As long as you give with one hand and take with the other, *I* can't do that. I'm not politically correct, never have been. I'm not starting now.
Ironically, a phenomona happened with this game. Folks seek out tailors before they seek out armorsmiths. Clothing has sold better in this world than I ever imagined it would. I believe the reason is that folks WANT to customize their characters and its a positive thing that goes toward roleplaying. Folks do MORE things than grind and hunt, hack and slash...that's a great thing...I'm impressed. We do need more clothing, we need better headgear and more dresses...pants...just everything. We need a better selection than what we have, even at master level. Putting new items into the game isn't the complete answer...decay over time is. I'm not talking decay in one week's real time...but a month or so. SLOW decay, and not shocking decay. You obviously have GREAT programmers on this project...get them to sit up and stop being lazy. They weren't one dimensional when they started out, why should they be that way now? They created, for the most part a great place to play...but its fast becoming boring.
I walked thru the Palace yesterday and marveled at all the things on tables. The artwork on the walls and in cubby holes. I had to ask myself WHY we can't have those things in our houses, why we can't have rugs and pictures. Why can't we have things sitting on tables...even if we don't have houses with stairways? The answer is lazy programming pure and simple. If we can rotate objects, move them back and forth...why can we NOT raise and lower? What's up with that?
Well, this is getting off the subject somewhat, but...it all smacks of the same thing. Lazy programing. Please...prove ME wrong. Prove to me that there is a reason to a) remain in SWG after EQ2 arrives and b) that there is a reason to remain and tailor.
Bridget Sara
Master Tailor
Wanderhome
So for me the question is not really "Does SOE want the tailor profession to be viable?" or even "Is SOE perfectly delighted to have most of the existing tailors bail out on a doomed profession?".. for me it boils down simply to this: Am I able to have fun and serve customers in the light of the negatives that are out there? So far, for me, the answer is yes.
Does this come across to you as angry and frustrated and bitter? Good, because that's what the Devs have engendered in me. Am I going to keep playing and have fun? Yep. Do I think anything that any tailor on these boards, on the forum that SOE set up specifically to gather feedback, will make a difference in SOE's priorities? Nope. I think when they get other things ironed out, when they fix stupid bugs and gamebreaking bugs for other professions, then, sometime down the line, we will get some attention.
Oh no worries, I am still very disgruntled. The only thing that convinced me to put down that pitchfork and torch was the reassurance that decay will be put into the game, and the admittance thatthe patch note was badly misworded. In other words nothing had really changed except for us missing experimentation, but that still left a bitter taste in my mouth.
A lot of this has to do with a premature game release. The popular opinionthat this is more like beta 4 is right on the money. This game wasn't ready for distibution and as a result the dev's have more issues to deal with then they can handle in a timely manner.
It's not just us Tailors that are being effected, every profession has unfixed issues right now, some have it worse than us.
I know this game will improve as the devs resolve these bugs over time. However I agree that their should fine-tune their priorities a bit. While every little bug has it's importance, I think that the larger issues are sometimes put on the back-burner when they shouldn't be. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have the big, important things taken care of first (decay, vendor and database issues)than the little annoying things like palettes. So if any dev is actually reading this, I hope they put their heads together and hammer out the BIG inter-profession problems first, and then move on to the smaller things. Another example is structure admin, that should have been one of the first bugs fixed yet it was not, even though it was a bug that effected just about everyone in the game.
Decay is an inter-profession issue that applies to all crafters, and the universal decay proposal is merely an attempt for the developers to re-use code as a quick solution. While I realize they are swamped, decay is such a far reaching and crucial issue that deserves much more thana half-hearted fix. I am willing to waitis a little extra time meansthe job right, provided they use their time wisely and don't waste it on lesser problems.
At the very least the devs do know that everyone would prefer a decay-on use system for clothing and furniture. They know what we want, but with a big database problem and tracking each and every item is probably easier said than done. But I don't have much sympathy with the devs over the database problem. Anyone who understands human nature knows we humans like STUFF. Lots of it. Crafters are going to fashion items until their fingers bleed as they grind away (thank god for practice mode!) and make 10 variations of each garment in different colors to keep their vendors stocked with customer-attracting variety. People will want 3 or 6 different color versions of their favorite outfit. People want their houses nice and comfy with potted trees and comfy couches to unwind from a hard day of work. You get the idea. When you think about this it's not hard to realize what you are up against and then plan accordingly.
After the lies they've given us, i dont really care what they have to SAY about our issues, because frankly i dont believe them anymore
Actions. thats where i'll be convinced they care about us or our profession.
You are absolutely correct in saying that decay is a big issue. 
To me it should be the issue that is most on the minds of the devs because without it, their player run economy is going down the tubes. What is frightening is Holo's assertion that they are looking for a universal decay...a way to make all items decay the same.
While decay happens to all things, it is silly to think that all things can be made to decay in the same way. It just doesn't. Yes, clothes *would* suffer if someone shot holes thru you or if a creature clawed and bit its way thru it to your skin in order to kill you. But, in my opinion, that would make clothing decay way too quickly. A decay over time isn't the answer because if clothing is packed away in a box and not taken out for years, its going to still be wearable. Maybe a little faded, maybe the cloth is a little more fragile, but it would still be wearable...brides have done this for eons. They carefully pack away their dresses and save them for 20-30 years until their daughters grow up and can wear them on their wedding day. Yes, its not quite as white and often the lace is a little smushed, but partly that makes it more beautiful.
Decay on use, to me seems to be the most viable decay for clothing. I do believe armor should continue to be eroded by the wear and tear from creatures. Houses should begin to look shabby on the outside after several months, but if they are maintained I think they should still be standing after 100 years. Imagine the opportunity with this. Older homes have more character, are, in someways, more attractive. The age on a house tells the whole community that this is a historic place, its been there the longest...and interesting things have happened there. Ivy grows over blocks and flowers are planted in flower beds. Trees grow up to shade the house from inquisitive vistors. The artists, I'm sure, could have a field day with that and love every minute of it. I'm equally sure that over time, folks would want a newer home, perhaps with a more pleasing lay out or better decorative options...who knows. But, I feel decay has to be implemented...not in 6 months, but soon, as in at the latest...2 weeks.
I also have no sympathy for the database difficulties. The reason is...you devs HAD to know. You can look at what folks do in EQ and know. Folks HORDE. In EQ folks stuff stuff in their banks til they are brimming over and then create mule after mule to hold more. I, personally, had 3 mules for each of my 60th level characters and was headed down the path of needing more. There were items I just couldn't give up, items I hated to sell but would never use again and items that no one else wanted but were too good to destroy. There were crafting ingredients and all sorts of things. Devs HAD to know that with the constant shifting of resources we'd have problems with items. Further, the very idea that this is a player based economy tells us that there is going to be a LOT of stuff. Stuff for crafting, stuff for dressing up, armor, weapons, decorating houses...and the list...continues. The mere fact that the devs GAVE us the reason to have more stuff...says they should have known.
I agree also that we are playing in Beta 4. We're paying to test the bugs in the game, that's become very obvious. I'm tired of the devs whining and saying, thank you for being patient. Yes, we're patient but I know that the BETA folks TOLD them. I was one of those folks. The early release of SWG is going to hurt them, it is already hurting the game...and will continue to hurt the game. Yes, its playable. Its has the potential to be AWESOME...but it may never realize that potentional.
One of the things that bums me out the most is to log into the game and see on the daily fixes that you've fixed stuff that doesn't really need fixing, that probably only affected a few folks and I see the things that need fixing a lot more...things that are hurting SWG and the player economy that the devs profess to want so badly.
Gah, I better just hush...thank you guys for responding in a positive way...I do hope the devs read this little corner.
Bridget
Subcriminal wrote:
I know this game will improve as the devs resolve these bugs over time. However I agree that their should fine-tune their priorities a bit. While every little bug has it's importance, I think that the larger issues are sometimes put on the back-burner when they shouldn't be. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have the big, important things taken care of first (decay, vendor and database issues)than the little annoying things like palettes. So if any dev is actually reading this, I hope they put their heads together and hammer out the BIG inter-profession problems first, and then move on to the smaller things. Another example is structure admin, that should have been one of the first bugs fixed yet it was not, even though it was a bug that effected just about everyone in the game.
No offense, but this is one of the few times I agree with you completely. 
I know that I would definitely be able to put up with backwards signs and other weird little bugs if they'd stop working on them for a month and said, "We're devoting all our time this month to balancing and fixing professions." There's a strange disconnect, to me, in the way that they're choosing to handle things. I.e., some issues that seem to be of critical importance aren't addressed, while strange, almost pet-peeve issues get looked at.
I mean, the way I see it:
- Brawler/Marksman - combat classes
- Artisan - crafting classes
- Medic/Entertainer/Scout - support classes
Okay, sure, the majority of people are probably going to start playing combat classes. It's easiest and there's little overhead. But when you consider that: Architect, Armoursmith, Droid Engineer, Merchant, Tailor and Weaponsmith all come from the Artisan category, and all have MAJOR flaws and bugs (yes, even the weaponsmiths), you realise that something like 20% of the "Elite" classes are effected, just be this one Decay Issue. Can we really say the same for any issue common to any of the other classes?
And lets not get me started on the "Tailors have never gotten UXP" revelation. 
What the hell have I been busting my hump selling things for then? And you'd think the Devs would want a system for decay in tout suite. I mean, the more things decay, the quicker you can get 'em outta your problematic database, right?
I'd better stop before I really start ranting.
My only remaining question about Tailoring is which of the four supported classes in the game should I choose when I sell it back: bounty hunter, rifleman, creature handler or weaponsmith?
Still on strike while I decide.
UXP still works for consumables like fibreplastpanels or synth cloth. Perhaps that's where you're getting it from.
Oowik wrote:
I am nearly certain that Holo is *gasp* lying about the Tailor UXP issue. If he isn't lying then it is only because he is mistaken. I've gotten dribs and drabs (2, 3, 4 xp at a shot) of tailoring XP when I have no factory running and haven't been crafting anything in a while. I've watched the XP monitor and SEEN the number bump up just a touch - this as recently as last week. I'll buy the idea that there is no self-use UXP, even though it is difficult to test. Unless I was leaching tailor XP from someone else, while sitting around in town at the bank, socializing or while sampling resources and watching TV... there is (was) SOME kind of UXP going on.