Tailor Archive
Thread: New Clothing in Loot Revamp?
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AllyaEcati
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:04 pm
#1
I guess it depends on your tailoring style. I have no problem saying no to a leet dood and banning him from my shop if he's giving me a hard time or a bum deal. I also have the support of my own combat character and a large guild where I'm pretty much the only master tailor and the head diva. I have tons of friends that just give me a lot of the looted components, and in exchange I hook them up with BE clothing, new outfits, ora product from the looted schems.
It might be harder on the newbie tailoror someone thatdoesn't have such a large support system. This is why I feel that schems shouldn't be loot, just components, because it gives the gunbunnies less of a feel that they're entitled to the finished product. The present looted tailor componentsare common items on the bazaar, so even tailors that don't have deep pockets can afford them. I know many people that just delete leather and clasps, because theyhave no use for it.
Message Edited by AllyaEcati on 11-04-2004 05:22 PM
isela
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:05 pm
#2
I like the loot schematics in game. Most people are glad to sell them to crafters and few would exchange them for1 crafted item from it.
Elpavi
Master Tailor
TheNola
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:11 pm
#3
A loot revamp. The ideas are pretty cool.
I do think that the "phat lewt" and the other loot stuff might be selling for a lot of creds though.
The SW economy is pretty up there anyway... I can't really imagine it going any much higher...
ASrai
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:11 pm
#4
I read through this document a couple of times and they propose some interesting ideas. Adding creature components to an item for something special, NPC's and creatures dropping stuff worth something, crafting bonus items, etc.
My concerns to this system would be as has already been stated:
1) We as pure crafters have no way to aquire such items.
2) The current situation will remain with gun bunnies resenting us as an obsticle to getting their ub3r phat lewt stuff that they can sell on the auction boards. Take the rugs for example. I was able to aquire one recently with my combat alt. Took me a few weeks, I didn't camp a certain mob continously to obtain the parts, nor did I go in to a bidding frezy to aquire these items. But I am sure that I can turn around and sell it for millions on the auction boards. Getting back to my point is that if architechs or tailors had been needed to make the final rug, we would have gotten a few measly credits for an item that would have sold for millions. And getting those measly credits out of said gunbunny would have been worse than trying to pull Rancor teeth.
3) We still don't get new standard content.
I would accept this if the following conditions could be met:
1) Some nice items (random reward) could be done through quests specific to a crafter profession. For Instance, NPC sends tailor around collecting various materials from other NPCs (same city=low level item, different planets=high level item) then are required to craft a final component for the quest giver. Your reward would be based on the difficulty of the challenge (ie. multiple planets, some npc's spawning in dangerous areas but still not having to fight them, etc.) and would be either a limited use schematic with a good number of uses (10-20 would suffice) or on a really hard to do quest the schematic becomes permenant.
2) Looted component slot added to all clothing schematics and not relegate them to just a few limited use schematics.
3) Items that get enhanced by a looted component have a time decay so these things don't sit in the world forever.
I think that they are on the right track, and as long as the devs keep non-combat type characters in mind, we should come out ok.
My concerns to this system would be as has already been stated:
1) We as pure crafters have no way to aquire such items.
2) The current situation will remain with gun bunnies resenting us as an obsticle to getting their ub3r phat lewt stuff that they can sell on the auction boards. Take the rugs for example. I was able to aquire one recently with my combat alt. Took me a few weeks, I didn't camp a certain mob continously to obtain the parts, nor did I go in to a bidding frezy to aquire these items. But I am sure that I can turn around and sell it for millions on the auction boards. Getting back to my point is that if architechs or tailors had been needed to make the final rug, we would have gotten a few measly credits for an item that would have sold for millions. And getting those measly credits out of said gunbunny would have been worse than trying to pull Rancor teeth.
3) We still don't get new standard content.
I would accept this if the following conditions could be met:
1) Some nice items (random reward) could be done through quests specific to a crafter profession. For Instance, NPC sends tailor around collecting various materials from other NPCs (same city=low level item, different planets=high level item) then are required to craft a final component for the quest giver. Your reward would be based on the difficulty of the challenge (ie. multiple planets, some npc's spawning in dangerous areas but still not having to fight them, etc.) and would be either a limited use schematic with a good number of uses (10-20 would suffice) or on a really hard to do quest the schematic becomes permenant.
2) Looted component slot added to all clothing schematics and not relegate them to just a few limited use schematics.
3) Items that get enhanced by a looted component have a time decay so these things don't sit in the world forever.
I think that they are on the right track, and as long as the devs keep non-combat type characters in mind, we should come out ok.
Gyopi
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:37 pm
#5
As long as 1) pure crafters can not obtain any loot on their own and 2) guild crafters and people's crafter alts will provide free "assembly" of items using loot so that assembly is not valued then there will be no way that pure crafters can become full members of the loot economy.
AllyaEcati
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:01 am
#6
"Tailors could make a variety of new clothes using slice hound intestines, Mott Bull muscles, or Krahbu entrails."
Check out the entire article...looks cool
Clicky
NJ62
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:13 am
#7
I'm not sure this is an entirely good thing. This seems like Jabba schematics all over again, that can lead to sometimes unpleasant interchanges with combatants who think our time is not worth anything, and who control the access to components.
What does everyone else think about this? If I say anything about this to the devs, I want to make sure I am reflecting the community's will.
What does everyone else think about this? If I say anything about this to the devs, I want to make sure I am reflecting the community's will.
AllyaEcati
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:19 am
#8
Well right now, I feel like the market is flooded with loot parts and schems, so maybe it will kind of stink in the beginning but improve as time goes on. I don't like the idea of looted schems (although I can deal with it), but I have no problem with looted components. From this document it sounded more like a component issue. Either way it sounds like loot will be more common. I'm excited about something new, that can give me an edge over other tailors.
Gyopi
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:50 am
#9
As I wrote in that thread:
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This sounds like a good idea, but before going forward with it I would suggest that the people involved actually play a crafter on a live server. Putting crafters into the loop is good in theory, but in practice it doesn't always work that way. Right now the loot part of the economy is very highly inflated so that even mediocre loot is worth more than almost any crafted item. What often happens right now is that 1) only the very top crafters can afford to buy the loot that they need to make some items. 2) Often people want more for the loot than anyone is willing to pay for the item made with that loot. This is actually very common. In these cases we end up with 3) combat people bring in their loot to a crafter and get it changed into a crafted item for a small nominal fee. If the item is worth a lot then they sell it for a lot of money or if not it just gets used by the person who brought the loot in. The crafter is basically left out except for maybe making a few thousand credits (if that). Until the economies are fixed, it will be hard to add useful loot to the system and not hurt the crafting community. Believe it or not, only a few crafters on most servers are really "rich". The rest just sort of get by. I personally do quite well with my businesses on my server, but if I need to raise a few million credits very fast it is still easier and faster for me to log onto my combat character, run missions and sell off the loot.
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I have had bad experiences with loot and crafting. I remember spending a lot of time making someone 6 crafters aprons, 3 dancer's leotards 3 weaponsmith toolbelts and 3 armorsmith bandoliers and having to negotiate to get 50K out of the deal. These were then sold for an enormous amount of money and I as a crafter got something like .01% of it. The fact is that loot is cool and loot is often rare. Because of this loot is usually worth a lot of money. Any master combat person can get lots of really nice loot. A master crafter can not get loot by crafting and only a handful of crafters on each server can afford the nicest loot. Maybe if loot would occasionally appear in my inventory as I was crafting I would be a little happier about it.
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This sounds like a good idea, but before going forward with it I would suggest that the people involved actually play a crafter on a live server. Putting crafters into the loop is good in theory, but in practice it doesn't always work that way. Right now the loot part of the economy is very highly inflated so that even mediocre loot is worth more than almost any crafted item. What often happens right now is that 1) only the very top crafters can afford to buy the loot that they need to make some items. 2) Often people want more for the loot than anyone is willing to pay for the item made with that loot. This is actually very common. In these cases we end up with 3) combat people bring in their loot to a crafter and get it changed into a crafted item for a small nominal fee. If the item is worth a lot then they sell it for a lot of money or if not it just gets used by the person who brought the loot in. The crafter is basically left out except for maybe making a few thousand credits (if that). Until the economies are fixed, it will be hard to add useful loot to the system and not hurt the crafting community. Believe it or not, only a few crafters on most servers are really "rich". The rest just sort of get by. I personally do quite well with my businesses on my server, but if I need to raise a few million credits very fast it is still easier and faster for me to log onto my combat character, run missions and sell off the loot.
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I have had bad experiences with loot and crafting. I remember spending a lot of time making someone 6 crafters aprons, 3 dancer's leotards 3 weaponsmith toolbelts and 3 armorsmith bandoliers and having to negotiate to get 50K out of the deal. These were then sold for an enormous amount of money and I as a crafter got something like .01% of it. The fact is that loot is cool and loot is often rare. Because of this loot is usually worth a lot of money. Any master combat person can get lots of really nice loot. A master crafter can not get loot by crafting and only a handful of crafters on each server can afford the nicest loot. Maybe if loot would occasionally appear in my inventory as I was crafting I would be a little happier about it.
NJ62
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:52 am
#10
My main concerns are:
1) I don't want every joe schmoe to be able to craft. This is only my opinion, however, but I think new content such as rugs should have been given to the architects in some form.
2) I fear the scenario of uber-l33t d00d coming into my shop, supplying me with materials (even including plast) and demanding that I make something. Even if he pays me for my time, he will go sell the finished product for profit. I personally think that the tailor should be the one capturing the profit, not the combat d00d.
Again, these are just my personal concerns, and I want to see what you think and then express a consensus on this loot, one way or another, behind the scenes.
1) I don't want every joe schmoe to be able to craft. This is only my opinion, however, but I think new content such as rugs should have been given to the architects in some form.
2) I fear the scenario of uber-l33t d00d coming into my shop, supplying me with materials (even including plast) and demanding that I make something. Even if he pays me for my time, he will go sell the finished product for profit. I personally think that the tailor should be the one capturing the profit, not the combat d00d.
Again, these are just my personal concerns, and I want to see what you think and then express a consensus on this loot, one way or another, behind the scenes.
Tear_Bria
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:41 am
#11
I think the major issue is that they need to give tailors more BE mods so we CAN make more money and be more useful. Because if you're like me and only a crafter and not any combat a lot of the loot and stuff you have to buy. And of course I think it's lame that novice tailors can make the old schematics, no offense to novice tailors =p but it takes a while to work your way up, so if they are gona do that all over again it really will flood the new stuff and they wont have the same worth and once again we wont be able to decorate our houses like everyone else * lol I guess you can see I'm concerned about decorating my house! haha *
Mystyrys
Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:13 am
#12
I don't mind the components being loot drops, but the schematics should be acquired some other way than having to kill something. (Perhaps similar to the new Entertainer quest?)
When they first introduced the Crafter's Aprons, Bandoliers, Leotards and Backpacks limited use schematics, I thought cool! Only to discover I could in NO WAY afford what the gunbunnies were selling them for. Not only could I no afford the schematics, I could not afford the components either. Not at first when even a single crystalline treatment was selling for 100k. *sigh* The only time I ever got my hands on those schem or components was to barter with the seller: He/She got one of the item, I got the other two uses. Sometimes I'd also get the components bartered too. It was painful, a huge hassle and not profitable.
My guild leader finally asked me about 3 months later why I never stocked any of those new items on my vendors. When I told him I flat could not afford to buy the schems and comps, he and another guild mate went on a hunting and questing and shopping spree. Within a month I was drowning in the blasted things. I had to set up two more houses just to store it all. It will be a long, longtime before I ever need more.
Components usually, eventually drop in price to something even a novice crafter can afford, but those schematics cost dearly. Always. Please do not make schematics loot drops. Limited or not, I won't buy them at those outrageous prices even though now I could afford them.
And I do think it detracts from the crafting professions if anyone can make the loot from kits. Like the new rug loot kits. The loot kit pieces are fine as loot drops, but the "tool" or a schematic to actually assemble the pieces should have been something the appropriate crafter had to acquire. Like architects get the Bestine painting schematics.
DND_Cas
Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:20 am
#13
Our problem is the only real contact we have is combat characters are those who want melee/stun defence clothing and thats mostly Jedi these days. If you ask a weaponsmith about dealing with gun bunnies I'm sure they'd answer the same question very differently.
Completely removing our contact with them isn't the answer. What we need is more options to help them because they treat crafting communities that help them more in terms of reward, such as armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, much better. Things like:
(1) Adding the same capabilities that driods with trap modules have to greandiers belts with grenades - i.e. allow them to store X odd grenades (of the same type) at a time and have a command associated with the belt that throws them.
(2) Adding storage capabilities to bandoliers with cargo pockets in the schematics (the same as some of the current looted ones) so that we can sell BE'd bandoliers to combat characters that have some storage (not as much as a backpack obviously).
(3) Using loot kitsto enhances underused generic tailor items such as belts and bandoliers. For example we could add new loot kits to the game which create items such as:
- slicing toolkits - gives a modifier that makes it more likely that the slicer will enhance either quickness (speed/encomberance) or power (damage/effectiveness) depending on the kit. Both should add modifiers to terminal and container slicing.
- holdout holster - allows the player to assign a pistol to the holster that reduces the equipping time by half in combat anytime they use it.
Then to use them they need to be added to a belt (for toolkits) or bandolier (for holsters). The end user adds the items just like skilltapes (and they have the same restrictions). However at our end we would need to add heavy duty leather to create bandoliers and belts with the slot so they can add these sorts of items to them.
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