CUEmu - Thread Posts

GunheadD9

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:15 am

So I ran into an Ideological issue this weekend: What is a schematic worth?

I'm approached by a fellow guild mate who is an armorsmith. He wants to commission me for a schematic for 1000 armor padding wookiee pillows. He says he'll give me 5k for it. I think to myself not only is he ripping me off by asking me to make an item for him that will allow him to effectively perform my trade, but he's going to be able to churn out 1000 of these and sell them for a substantial profit. Why should I shoot myself in the foot, as well as every tailor on my server, by subverting myself because he wants something?

So I think for a minute. Earlier he and another guildie were talking to someone else in guild chat about how they had seen a single crate of 24 of these go for 48000 credits. So I really quickly do the math: 24 /48000 = 2000 per unit. 2000 x 1000 = 2000000 credits. That's right I thought to myself, 2 million credits.

So I tell the guy that I'll make him the schematic for half the value of the quoted price for the whole run, 1 Million Credits, that way he can double his money when he sells them all. I think his blood pressure went through the roof at that point -- he was seething pissed. He talked some crap, and then told me we had nothing to talk about.

However it seemed he didn't feel he had gotten enough of a last word. He started getting arrogant and abusive, trying to egg me into arguing with him. He was bitching about how I was trying to extort him and how I was not upholding the tenants of the guild. I could only chuckle to myself and ignore him on this. Shortly after he stormed into guild chat trying to call me out by asking me the price on a full set pf BE clothing with 4 sockets per piece, and I responded with "Heya XXXXXX, are you angry with me? If you would like to discuss this offline or in private chat I'm fine with that, but I seem to recall you saying that we had nothing more to talk about.

Again he got upset, and I guess at that point he started crying to one of the guild elders about it, because the elder then discussed the issue with me privately, for like an hour and a half. Turns out that this kid wanted the pillows to make the elder some suits of wookiee armor. Basically it came down to an issue of both of us feeling we were getting shafted by the other one, and neither of us being willing to budge on our stance. I wound up making about 100 pillows for the elder and selling them to the elder for 2cpu, since the elder is a good guy and treated me with respect and didn't jump to conclusions in regards to this.

So what's the point? Fun Story? No, I'm wondering, what is the tailoring community's stance on schematics and making/selling them to others? I used to be of the camp of "Hey I'll make you a schematic, b/c then I don't have to waste my factory time churning out your crap". But now I think I'm out of the schematics for others business. This situation really horked me off, not only because I was totally disrespected, but also because I felt like this guy was _expecting_ me to let him piss all over our profession. Does anyone else see the inherent problem with this sort of attitude and disrespect?

Have any of you run into this sort of situation? If so how did you handle it? Do you think I was asking too much for the schematic? Are you selling crates of wookiee pillows and if so for how much?

N'Uro M'Bok

Master Tailor

Corbantis

Dedori

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:29 am

#2

I make schematics for my guild for free upon request. Others I charge 50-100K based on faction and manners.

GonkSevenT3

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:29 am

#3

I've been pretty lucky with schems myself. There's really only one guildie who ever asks me for them. He offered me 20K right out the first time. And frankly for the time and effort it takes to make him a schem I think 20K is decent. 5K however, for the wook pillows is not. And I may be a bit off, but 48k for one crate of 24 is price gouging. But who knows, maybe I just under price.

"How can you be so serious on a film where you are dodging explosions and running away with Sir Alec Guinness on this side and an eight-foot monkey on this side, and the eight-foot monkey is the one flying the spaceship?" ~Mark Hamill

Raijen_ArDesh

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:45 am

#4

I don't do schematic sales, other than as a trade with a droid engineer (I trade schematics of artisan components for his storage modules). It's just not worth it for me to see a customer walk away (and the factI keep my resources and lootson the same vendor as my special ordersmeans they get looked at each time someone comes to pickup an order never hurts)

--
Raijen Ar'Desh - Master Artisan/Merchant/Tailor, Not Qute Master Yet Architect, Yellow Pen
Tolaris Ar'Desh - Master Medic. Doctor and Aspiring Fencer, Purple Pen
"Weesa pleased to bringya desa news dat mesa, JarJar, isa now da SOE Lead Producer."
- HalasterTheBlack

ArthurDentOnBria

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:01 pm

#5

To a bio engineer this is a huge, much debated issue. This is because for a bio engineer, you get asked for free schematics much more frequently then you get asked for your products themselves. This creates a situation where the products themselves get devalued further and further, and the whole profession takes it on the chin. And the only real way to fight back is to demand schematics in return for supplying schematics (which I've done, I now have a factory full of crates of 400+ power varasian brandy, lol).

As I've said before, the value of a schematic is easy to calculate. Take the value of the products that are produced by the schematic, and subtract the value of the ingredients (that are assumably being supplied by the customer). The difference, by definition, is the value of the schematic itself. So for example if you sell synthetic cloth for 5k/crate, and the materials are worth 1k/crate, and you supply a schematic for 40 crates of synthetic cloth, then that schematic has a value of 160k. I'm not suggesting you sell it for that. Heck, I flat out refuse to sell schematics of any kind (I think it's harmful to the class system of the game, and harmful to your particular class to do so), but I'm just telling you, that is the "value" of that schematic.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-04-2004 01:03 PM

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%

DirthNader

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:22 pm

#6

Please forgive my continued presence here - I've found tailor enjoyable, even just getting field wear II, and am considering throwing some more skill points into it.

To the original poster, the specific example you're citing was in fact poor judgement on your part. First of all, 2 million credits asa price for a completed run of armor padding is extreme. I think I paid my tailor somewhere in the ballpark of 300K-600K for them before she retired. That was for high quality padding (4%, about 6/6/6 HAM).

I could see perhaps charging half of the list price for a schematic for syn cloth or RFP, but those use resources commonly found for 1-2cpu, and aren't dependent on quality. Armor padding uses an extreme amount of hide, and is in fact dependent on quality. As opposed to other tailor items, the resources in armor padding are the driving cost, not the effort to generate the schematic or run the items in the factory.

Now, moving away from that specific example into the general realm of component schematics, I tend to side with the taliors/BE's/etc. on this one. Yes, it takes all of a minute to make a schematic, but how long did it take the schematic maker to get to the level where they can make said schematic? How many skill points do they have invested in that ability? It's similar to the fools that come around once and a while and complain about the cost of armor in terms of cpu. It's not about the cpu, it's about the amount of time and available skill points you've got invested in your craft/items.

The only arguement I've ever heard for free or dirt cheap schematics is that it's impossible to find crafters dedicated to supplying components. To that I say, maybe if the dependent crafters made it a lucrative business to sell components then there would be dedicated component suppliers. The way some crafters treat their component suppliers as throwaway commodities has more to do with the fact that said crafters can't find vendors full of syn cloth / INN's / etc. than it does with those component suppliers being "dedicated" to their chosen profession.

The artist formerly known as Ittov

VenusRising

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:30 pm

#7

I try my hardest not to make schematics for anyone other than guildmates (and I hardly have to do that anymore, because my Guild's Armorsmith picked up enough Tailor for Synth and RFP's), but I am currently working with an individual who I will supply either the schematic for Trim or the Trim itself for his Chef in exchange for a good deal on BE tissues. This seems perfectly fair to me, because we are helping one another out in our respective professions. I don't mind that he will be making a good deal of money on the Vasarian Brandy which he will be using he Trim for, because he's making me BE tissues (which are next to impossible to find on Flurry /grumbles), which will turn me a nice profit as well. But if some random person asks me if I will make schematics, I generally tell them no.

eyes.of.a.tragedy.................

.:Bran'dy:..:Phoen'ix:.
.................your.halo's.slippin.down

temptres

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm

#8

I usally tell ones you supply the material and make sure its enough to cover what you want ill make the scematics for them.

and when I need armor i can ask them fopr help.

think about it, if you work it out with the armor smith you can get a good deal on your armor, same with trim to a chef.

NJ62

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:50 am

#9

I make schematics or components as the exception to the rule, and it completely depends on the attitude of the person asking.

n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player
All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
PLEASE REGISTER FOR THE SWGTAILOR OFFSITE FORUM (IMAGE DESIGNERS WELCOME TOO)

GonkSevenT3

Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:54 am

#10

I have to say Dirth, you make some really great points that I hadn't thought of before. I doubt I'll have a run on schematics, but I may start a components shop. I'll have to put more thought into this, but it seems like a possible niche I can fit into.

"How can you be so serious on a film where you are dodging explosions and running away with Sir Alec Guinness on this side and an eight-foot monkey on this side, and the eight-foot monkey is the one flying the spaceship?" ~Mark Hamill

captenjonny

Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:47 am

#11

Yeah, I get approached every now and then for a schematic. I don't sell them, except in circumstances within my guild when I am too busy to otherwise supply the material. I would much rather strike a deal for crates in quantity or let them find a noob (and I was one and yes, I sold schems for a couple of hundred credits). It wasn't until later when I understood the factory concept that I realized that I had been taken advantage of.

But I will tell you that putting Factory Crates on my vendors is VERY lucrative. I'm almost ashamed to say it but I make way more money per week selling crates than clothing!

A second point I would like to make is simply one of manners. I am beginning to think that it is just rude to walk up to a crafter and ask for schematics. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the trade.

However in answer to the first poster I think you acted in the right. In the SWG economy free trade is the rule and if the whiner didn't want to pay your price he should have said "no thanks" and moved on. The concept that since you and I are in the same guild you should do EVERYTHING FOR ME FOR FREE is not the true spirit behind guild membership. It's a guild NOT a Sam's Club or Costco.

Captain Jonny

Raijen_ArDesh

Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:52 am

#12

captenjonny wrote:

But I will tell you that putting Factory Crates on my vendors is VERY lucrative. I'm almost ashamed to say it but I make way more money per week selling crates than clothing!

I also find that doing factory runs are big sellers. I put them in travel packs named along the lines of "Synthetic Cloth x 1000" or "Reinforced Fiber Panels x 1000".

I typically sell three runs of cloth, and one of panels a week (along with the individual crates)

--
Raijen Ar'Desh - Master Artisan/Merchant/Tailor, Not Qute Master Yet Architect, Yellow Pen
Tolaris Ar'Desh - Master Medic. Doctor and Aspiring Fencer, Purple Pen
"Weesa pleased to bringya desa news dat mesa, JarJar, isa now da SOE Lead Producer."
- HalasterTheBlack

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Thread: Ideological Schematic Issue -- your opinions please