Tailor Archive
Thread: On raising the bar: more constructive posting leads to better karma and better results
But we can pull it together and do even better.Message Edited by Rizzaka on 03-26-2004 10:13 AM
Thank you, and if I have said anything negative about anyone while I was ranting, I apologize. I try to stay constructive and make my point, but sometimes I fail. 
The devs work hard, I have no doubt of this. I'm very sure they prefer praise to complaints, and constructive comments to rants, this is also true, but does the fact that they have "warm fuzzy" feelings for this community relative to otherstranslate into all kinds of cool stuff and additional attention to tailors in particular as you imply? I think we can certainly say "no, it doesn't". In fact, if you take a look at what things get worked on, and what classes get particular attention "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" I feel is a much more accurate statement of the way things have been done over the last 9 months.
Do people feel there was a connection between the big wookie protests (and rants, and ...)and the new wookie armor that is suddenly being rushed out? I do.
Do people feel that the quick action we got on decay and the fact that TH posted on our forum (which incidentally was the last time to my knowledge that we've been graced with such a post) was a result of all the rucus we tailors raised about experimentation being removed? I do.
I'm not condoning flaming, either towards the devs, other members, or the correspondent, I'm just saying that I don't actually believe that there is a connection between "karma" and "better results". I think quite often results are driven by priorities, and priorities are driven by necessity. The trick is getting the devs to believe that occasionally throwing tailors a nice juicy bone is a necessity. The quieter we are, the less we'll get, that is what I believe.
NJ62 wrote:
I know this wookiee issue, and a reexamination of our top five has caused some negative feelings. I'm not going to tell you that your feelings aren't valid, or try to make vague promises about which I have no knowledge.
But consider that the devs peek in here from time to time. It's not nice to disrespect these guys who work so hard for us, even if not all decisions are agreed-with. These guys - I've seen them post publicly on these boards at all ridiculous hours, weekends, Sundays, Superbowl Sunday. Give em a break. They're working overtime as it is.
On a practical level,it's not productive either. The devs arenot going to work hard for us in particular if they feel we disrespect what they're doing. This is not petulant - it's human nature. Humans who want to get home to their families - going home at a reasonable hour looks more and more tempting when facing an angry forum.
Even one snipey comment in an otherwise-sound argument may cause a reader (dev or player)to dismiss your entire premise: don't undercut your own arguments.
I'm not telling you to keep your criticisms to yourself. I'm simply saying that we're a good, constructive forum already, and we don't tend to flame each other, and I believe we can raise the bar. So say what you're going to say. Argue passionately. But before you hit submit... read it over and think to yourself whether your post will logically promote your point of view and add to the debateor will simply fan the flames.
In general we're doing a good job
I certainly agree. However, I don't think it's being suggested that we be quieter Tailors, but rather that we be polite, organized,and constructive in our noisiness
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
The quieter we are, the less we'll get, that is what I believe.
The whole of the responsibility can't fall on a correspondent to present clear, constructiveinfo to the devs, they read player posts too when making their decisions. And they aren't robots (so yes tone does matter), and they don't have a ton of time on their hands (so being concise is important). We all have the potential of being little mini correspondents when we post on the Tailor forum, representing a segment of the Tailor population (not all of whom post here) when we give our opinion. Don't underestimate the power of your posts My 2 credits The only problem I have is when they propose something completely useless without ANY explanation or reasons for doing it.
If I feel what they are proposing is stupid, I sure the heck am gonna protest and protest loudly. I don't like being taken advantage of in real life and I don't want dev's to walk all over my profession in the game either.
If anything I hope it makes the dev'sTHINK a little more before doing stupid things likeuseless padded segments. Quite honestly I don't even understand what they are thinking when they implement some things in this game and then have to re-evaluate it later because they didn't do it right the first time. A little more thought and listening to the community, would probably help but they don't listen to the people who actually PLAY the game. That is why they get bombarded with negative posts.
I don't normally complain but sometimes I just don't understand where or why something is done the way it is, and they don't even bother to explain it.To me some of the things they do seem random and not well thought out.
Arthur, I agree that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I am not telling you not to squeak. Squeak, please. I'm simply saying that how you squeak is important in terms of open communication with the devs, which in turn leads to the devs working toward what we desire.
I'm not going to name any names, but in some forums all you hear are nerf cries and ranting. Those forums don't get dev attention.
Now take the Image Design forum. They are getting all sorts of goodies. I've been around there and I can honestly say that people talk loudly about what they want, and how frustrated they are, but it stops short of being insulting. And the devs have posted there too, because they feel comfortable that they won't be immediately opening themselves to attack.
My point is that we can be outraged, and voice that we don't like something. But if we want better communication, the outrage needs to stop at the point of alienating the devs completely so that they have no desire to focus on our profession. We can't insult the devs and then complain in the same breath that we never see red names in the forum. We want attention, but negative attention will not make communication any better.
Regarding posting on the armorsmith board: this affects the entire tailoring community.
As many of you are displeased when others from different professions come onto our boards and start lobbying to change tailoring (i.e. the re-colorization issue) the armorsmiths might be miffed at a tailor invasion.
Be aware that armorsmiths probably do not read our board, and by speaking on their board you may be the only tailor they hear, thereforea "representative" of our community, which requires a more even-handed approach. Keep in mind that what you say on the armorsmith board may affect the way armorsmiths perceive the tailoring community as a whole.
The tailor forums are making me pretty sad right now. I know that there is a lot of frustration right now, but I have never seen so much anger almost randomly thrown around here. I want my old forums back where the discussions were heated, but still constructive.