Tailor Archive
Thread: tailors do not deserve to earn the same as other professions
No, because they are still novice items. I don't understand your argument. I said that the time required to be able to make an item should be considered, obviously the time required to be able to make a novice item isn't the same than for a master item, is it?
I generally don't make artisan items, or stock them on my vendor. The only exception is Casual Shoes, which I sell in white as Casual Shoes/Sneakers. Oh, and I do have leather gloves on my vendor. And maybe a few soft undershirts I made as color examples.
The color discussion is rather moot because 99% of the people want black anyhow. Plus the detailing and textures on the artisan level items isn't nearly as nice as Novice Tailor and up. I just don't make those things in any color.
"" Ri'a Ocoli"" Master Tailor, Kettemoor
"" Fine Attire by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!
This whole debate is self defeating. The value of an item in this game is highly subjective, and we really shouldn't be valuing clothes by any kind of "objective" standard based on resources used, the time and expense it took us to get to master, etc. Nor should we feel the need tojustifyour prices by comparison to some such standard. The only way to judge whether a price is "right" or not is to try it out on the market. Charge what you want to charge, and if customers pay it, well and good. Obviously your items are not overpriced. If you don't sell, something is wrong. Be aware, though, that lowering your price may well not fix your problem. It could be that no one knows you're there, that you have a lousy location, or that you're not providing as good a service as you might. Or something else.
It seems to me that a major problem in this debate is a failure to understand why people pay what they pay in SWG. The fact of the matter is that money isn't that hard to come by in this game--spend an evening running even low level missions and you can afford most any low to mid level item you'd like to buy. In an economy like this, I've never really noticed that people comparison shop that much based on price. They will to a degree for resources, med supplies, and other fungible items that are used up after they're bought, but even that's limited--if I need hides, I'll pay what I need to get them, so long as there are some that aren't outrageously overpriced; I'm paying for the convenience of getting them NOW, during my limited playtime, when I need them and not later. Most people I know buy like this--how convenient is it for me to get the item now when I need it, in the form I want.How much it costs is secondary. In tailoring, people also seem to place a high premium on personalized, courteous service, and on simple talent--an eye for color, a good sense of style.
I charge 10-12k for my top of the line master's level items (wraps, leotards, flightsuits, etc.) and never have any problem selling them. I do extremely good business--I still have more than I can sometimes handle, or even want, based on my limited playtime. My customers typically come to me because they know I'll give them what they want--something that will make them look however it is they want to look. They also know I'll take as long as it takes and however many tries it takes to get them the look they want, and that I won't lose patience with them (well, most of the time) as we work together to achieve that look. And they have no problem at all with my prices--they know that time is valuable, and don't mind at all paying me for it. In fact, they frequently tip me for more than the price I quote. They're also quite loyal, coming back to me and sending their friends to me. I've had about three complaints about prices since I started my business, and I've never lowered my prices once. So obviously,I'm not overcharging for my clothes.
I really think we have an edge over most other crafting professionsprecisely becauseour business is (so far, anyway) based almost solely on aesthetics. If you're a good tailor, you'll make money regardless of the market in second hand clothes and the bargain basement undercutters because you have a talent for making people look good. That's a very valuable service, and people will pay for it. At least that's what I see based on my experience.
My server is in my sig.
This thread has gotten very convoluted so I'm not even sure what part I was responding to any more. Something about if master level items are worth more because of the time spent getting to master, then a master should charge more for every item they make, including Novice? And then something about because the Master has more colors? I don't know.. it doesn't make sense now.. especially because I somehow started talking about Artisan when I see Novice was the example brought up.
I'm not sure if the rest of your message was directed at me. /shrug
I made an adequate living as I levelled up to Master.. never ran a single destroy mission. I did start doing survey ones when the Keren Bazaar fiasco happened. What did I sell most as an artisan and a Novice Tailor? Black! Do people wear more than just black? Yes. What do I still sell the most of? Black.
Maybe part of it is that most of the Artisan/Novice colors are just ugly. That and people like black, really.
I still maintain that an up and coming tailor can make a living if they work at finding a niche or a need, and filling it.
And I believe that an item is worth what people will pay for it. If I sell camos all day long at 2950, then they are worth 2950. If someone comes into my shop and pays my asking price for several master items, then those items were worth that price. If someone buys six flightsuits at once, then yes, money is meaningless in SWG.
I had another thread started about the effect of prices and consumer behavior. Since then I've made a concerted effort to not give a flying you-know-what about what other tailors charge. So far it's working pretty well.
I've worked my tail off building a business, an infrastructure, a clientele. I'm not a millionaire, but I will be someday. Does that make me a greedy S.O.B.? Maybe yes, maybe no. But, you know what? I'm having fun playing the game. I like working with people, and yes, I provide plenty of customer service. I spend pretty much all of my ingame time being a tailor. Personally I think I'm entitled to earn a fair living doing so. /shrug
Some day I will stop posting on these pricing threads..
"" Ri'a Ocoli"" Master Tailor, Kettemoor
"" Fine Attire by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!
KazeyW,
I've been an architect, BE, tailor, and have experienced chef, droid engineer, and armorsmith second-hand through a good friend and business partner, and I'll tell you, tailor is just flat out different. When you are an architect, a BE, a chef, or I imagine a weaponsmith (you tell me), the challenge is in gathering the materials. Those classes have to gather a lot of materials,and are very "quality" sensitive, so your success relative to othersdepends on your skill in gathering the resources you need. For tailor, the gathering part is trivial, agreed, but the challenge comes after that.
Firstly, I think most of us hand craft nearly all the items we make, out of necessity. It's not like I'mgoing to fill a factory crate with 100pairs of black pants with a white stripe and then just throw em in my vendor (like a weaponsmith can). Thank goodness too, could you imagine 100 people running around town the the same pants? lol. Also, you mention critical fails, like this is something unique to weaponsmiths. I was an architect and critical failed on items requiring tens or thousands or resources. I've critical failed on 50k factories and 70k med houses, but on a percentage basis, tailors have a lot more "lost resources" than any other profession that I've seen. This is because not only do we critical fail at the same rate as everyone else, but when I'm doing a custom order,it's nearly a given that I'm not going to get it exactly right the first time. If I'm in a cantina and someone asks me for a "light colored vest, something that looks COOOL", satisfying that requirement is non-trivial. Not quite the right color, not quite the right style, and if I don't have enough room for it in inventory, or don't think it's a style the sells rappidly, I just hit the "destroy" button and start over. Tell me the last time you did that with a gun? lol
As far as clothes being a "necessity", theycertainly are necessity, but in a completely different sense. I concede that the SW universe is primarily about combat, and that's fine, I enjoy it too, and I love splurging on a great gun, but combat has got to have a "point" to it, otherwise why do it, and that is where clothing and other "luxury" items (houses, furniture, etc.) fit in. Also, clothing has a second purpose and that is it supports the immersion and role playing aspects of the game. Without a robust reward system, and without items that enable role playing or immersion in the starwars world, SWG would be a glorified Doom playable only by "griefers".
This is because not only do we critical fail at the same rate as everyone else, but when I'm doing a custom order,it's nearly a given that I'm not going to get it exactly right the first time. If I'm in a cantina and someone asks me for a "light colored vest, something that looks COOOL", satisfying that requirement is non-trivial. Not quite the right color, not quite the right style, and if I don't have enough room for it in inventory, or don't think it's a style the sells rappidly, I just hit the "destroy" button and start over.
Sorry, but that's not been my experience at all. I go out of my way before making orders to make sure I have a good grasp of what they want, send them to the web to see the colors and styles first if needed, and have rarely ever had an item refused. I have every tailored item on display in my shops, and between that and the website people can order their clothes down to the exact item name and color, even if they didn't know what they wanted when they got there.
Taking that extra time, though, still isn't close to the time and moneya weaponsmith spends tracking down all the resources they need. A weaponsmith friend of mine had his house disappear from a bug, along with all his resources a few weeks ago. He is still, two weeks later trying to replace them all, and depending on the spawn cycles it could be a month or more before he has enough quality resources of all the right types and quantities to get back to where he was.
As for the neccesity of clothing issue, look at it this way. Take your average player, they have 3 hours to play on a given night and spend 2 of them doing missions. Give them a choice of spending that money on one thing that night: maintenance, shuttle fees, weapons, armor, training, or clothing. How many people do you really think will pick clothing?
and you won't be able to keep things going since when you need 10k in cash you won't be able to make it off selling 1 item, you'll STILL have to sell 10 items but the sales you seem so hard up to get now will only be less later.
Priceless Kylania!
/sigh
there are so many threads about prices... there is no "right" answer when it comes to pricing, and people are entitled to their own. i'm glad i can make a comfortable profit even when there are plenty of master tailors where i am. my prices are certainly not cheap (www.cs.ucsb.edu/~pappi/prices.htm), but people are willing to pay for it, and usually tips me more. iwouldn't let anyone change my mind about my prices, and people who don't like them can visit another tailor.(no ill feelings towards them, especially if they're buying from my vendor) the ones that do come to my shop feels that they're getting their money's worth. iknow a few tailorsthat charge more or less than i do,and we get along fine. we help each other out with resources and such, when something rare/good spawns we share the information. i wish it could be the same for everyone else 
let other people play the game the way they want to, unless it's hurting you. try to make friends with your nearby tailors... it's always good to have friends than enemies. if you have pricing or other difference with them that you can't work out, try to be at least civil. we're all in this profession together, and we should stick together.
best of luck to everyone 
