Tailor Archive
Thread: Another big nerf beside factory.
If they made UXP a reasonable amount we could move on. I agree, 10% factory XP is about right. I mean, you didn't do any direct work, and you got XP from the manufacturing schematic 
, But why do they keep encouraging grinding. I understand the practice mode thing. There will always be grinders, why have them kill the server? 
But the UXP I get from people using litterally hundreds of my components, is just insane. I earn a tier 2 skill box about once a week. This puts me on track to finish tailor (I'm currently have all tailor 1 skills, (from grinding) and Formal Wear 2) in the third week of November! (about 15 weeks from now) Now I'll be it, as compared to EQ that's fine. But even with the factory nerf (I didn't get my factory until I already had earned all the tailor 1 skills and I wasn't depending on it for formal wear 2. I like to sit in the cantina alot) the grinders should be able to earn way more than that. I figure (based on the fact that you can make2 ribbed shirts every minute (Which isn't quite true, In my periods of despiration, I've done 3 a minute.) in 46 hours. On my playing schedule (3 hours a night, more on weekends, but I'll go with 3 hours a day) a grinder (Assuming that they mysteriously had resources) could ace tailor in 2 weeks, 1 day. This means that they could earn it, in all practical sense (i.e. factoring in resource gathering, etc), in a month. Not 4 and a half like a UXP dependant tailor would. Which leads to the question: "Why do I bother spending hours talking to customers, getting stiffed by 10% of them, trying to make exactly what they want, when I could spend the time grinding and talking to people on a casual level?"
Because grinding costs more... That's why.
JimTheCactus wrote:
If they made UXP a reasonable amount we could move on.
The problem with UXP is that encourages overproduction and underpricing. As it stands we get 60% of the potential xp from any item from UXP. That's a huge incentive to always keep the bazaar slots filled to the brim and to price for the fastest possible turnover, even if that means taking a loss from the value of the resources, even if it means giving product away for free.
During Beta, a vocal segment of the community wanted 100% UXP, no crafting xp, the logical result of which would have been crafters paying players to use their wares. Beyond a certain balance point, the value of the experience is greater than the value of the item.
I don't like "grind and destroy" any more than the next crafter, but the positive aspect of it is that those items will never come to market and compete with those of us trying to make a living.
If we're going to propose ways to limit grinding, we've got to also include controls to limit market dumping. Maybe there could be a "mission" mode to factory production that ships off the production run to some NPC groupin exchange for a higher rate of experience and a small profit. This takes surplus material out of the economy, forstalls dumping, and gives crafters a greater sense of involvement in the game world (because, let's face it, the current crop of so-called crafting missions sucks).
I took up Merchant this weekend and I'm alreadyup one skill box and filling another byjust stocking a vendor and then sitting back and doing nothing.
That's too easy, but it may be closer to an ideal model than what we've got. As it stands, crafters are rewarded for cranking out as much product in as short a time as possible, and punished for experimenting, customizing, or doing anything else that slows the grind. In an ideal world, we'd get more experience for the ten minutes spent trying out various colors to match or at least compliment a random NPC drop than we'd get for the 50 generic ribbed shirts we could crank out in that same time frame.
Of course, in that ideal world we could create new clothing designs, fabrics and prints rather than pushing out the preset designs. There are limits to what you can do with color selection and ensemble assembly.
On the other hand, we don't have to look at any "Hello Kitty" t-shirts...
Mennace wrote:
Now I understand it should take some time to make Master skills but it shouldn't be a "grind" I made Master Artisan before persueing any profession and I did it by hanging out and getting people to buy I only "grinded" when I needed like a little XP to make the next level like 1 or 2K. And how did I "grind" Not by making a million weapon power ups, but by making the best thing I can. I made that last bit of XP in a resonable amount of time. Now with the change that's not possible. I'm better off "grinding" weapon power ups or whatever the "grind" fad is. That's not how it was intended to be. Why hurt average and casual gammers because power gamers are racing up the tree. FYI power gamers will ALWAYS fly up the tree.
But Mennace, the highest level artisan boxes only cost 6,000 xp. Level one Tailoring skills cost 32000 Tailor xp. Each. Artisan is a starting profession and can't really be comparedto a high level profession like Tailoring as far as things like advancement. Artisan is pretty easy.
Of course tailoring is supposed to be much harder than Artisan. But personally I think the xp curve is a little too steep even for an "advanced" profession. I don't grind for xp, but that's because I'm still having fun crafting for customers and selling in my shop. When I'm actually crafting (instead of taking breaks to hunt or hang out with friends), I'm constantly busy between filling orders and stocking my shop. But even then the xp seems pretty slow...
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Y'know what I'd really like? If there was some way I could
exchange money made from selling clothes for XP. As an offset
to all the pro-grinding subsidies built into the game.
SueDenim.
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Yup it's called the Merchant tree. you get XP from people buying your stuff. XP from people visiting them and checking the stuff out.
Can't do it for all the profession.
Now I understand it should take some time to make Master skills but it shouldn't be a "grind" I made Master Artisan before persueing any profession and I did it by hanging out and getting people to buy I only "grinded" when I needed like a little XP to make the next level like 1 or 2K. And how did I "grind" Not by making a million weapon power ups, but by making the best thing I can. I made that last bit of XP in a resonable amount of time. Now with the change that's not possible. I'm better off "grinding" weapon power ups or whatever the "grind" fad is. That's not how it was intended to be. Why hurt average and casual gammers because power gamers are racing up the tree. FYI power gamers will ALWAYS fly up the tree.
Check my post on the Artisan board entitled:
Correspondent please read (Crafting suggestions)
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=8980
Post your comments and suggestions.
Mennace...
Real tailors make real goods for real people, grinders practice making goods for better XP.
Practice mode has just helped sway people towards grinding out practice items for those precious extra xp points, real tailors are busy working with their customers, making real items in several colors, spending time allowing the customer to peruse their goods. Yet real tailors end up making very little XP because UXP is basically zilch and they need to prodcue real items so they just cant practice all the time. This is a circular problem that ends in a real tailor wondering if they will ever lvl. again. How is that fair to a casual gamer, or even a hardcore gamer who has great customer serviceand actually spends social time with his/her customers?
To any dev reading this: PLEASE increase User XP! A mark of a good tailor shouldnt be how many ribbed shirts they've made, but how many peoplelove to wear their beautiful admin. robe or well tailored wooly jacket in bright purple
ghettopastor wrote:
To any dev reading this: PLEASE increase User XP! A mark of a good tailor shouldnt be how many ribbed shirts they've made, but how many peoplelove to wear their beautiful admin. robe or well tailored wooly jacket in bright purple
Increasing user XP is not the solution. I used to think it was. But think about it. If user xp was greatly increased, the grinders would still grind. Instead of "practicing" and not creating items, they'd dump as many of their items on the bazaar as possible for like 20cr. The rest of us would never be able to sell a decently priced ribbed shirtagain. They'd hang out by the starport and give every fresh-off-the-starship noob a free ribbed shirt.
It would also encourage the non-grinders to greatly lower their prices so they could go for quanity rather than quality. Back in beta we only got UXP, and you'd see people giving away their clothes (or sometimes even paying other characters to wear them). I'd rather not see that happen again.
Ok for all the people who believe we 10% for factory or even no XP for factory is right because technically we're not making the item. In that case we should get max UCP when using componets made in a factory. Since we are not technically making it.
Squed logic, but logic none the less...
Mennace...