Tailor Archive

I don't see what the problem is. People are free to resell the stuff they buy.

With a purchase, they don't enter into a contract limiting what they can with the goods or how much they can sell it for.

I'm not sure I mind the reselling part. As a Master Tailor I don't have too big of a business (avoiding the tell hell...) and I don't mind anything that will get my name out, since I do much less advertising than most.

About the money thing, I guess I don't sell too much, since I have never broken 150k credits, and the only time I came close was when I sold my large house. Maybe I should sell more... =/

Dude! it is called resale!!!

They have a whole profession devoted to it. If he has vendor then he is a merchant even if it is just a crappy artisan vendor. I'm sure you probably have some merchant skills yourself. So that makes you an artisan that is also a merchant doesn't it?

His marking up the prices doesn't hurt you. If he is paying for your clothes, then he ownes them and can do whatever he likes with them.

I know we have a lot of stupid intelectual property laws in the US right now and you might feel that since the clothing carries your name it somehow belongs to you. But in reality once you sell it and it leaves your shop it is his to do whatever he wants to with it.

But heck if he is selling at those prices I think you should mark up your stuff a bit.

The thoughts and discussions that this thread has provoked on this and the server board are great, however, the poster left out 1 VERY significant detail...I believe this to be because she didn't know it was significant but...:

The tissue that the 'reseller' provided was Taming Wild/Vicious Creatures (which requires 25 identical units of milk). The 'reseller' provided the tissue, got the shirt and tipped the tailor 50k for hertroubles.

As a master BE I understand that when people come to us with all the resources (in my case meat/hide/bone and in tailor's case, tissues) ask us to make the combine and pay us very little it's crappy. But, with tissues or clothing that requires milk (or other ultra rare resources) I believe an exception should be made. If someone shows up with 25 milk who should get the majority of the profits there? The BE? The Tailor? No...the guy/gal who went out and did the milk hunting.

This detail explains:

1. Why the tailor claims to be market price but is having items bought from her for resale

2. Why the resale price of the item was so high

The only thing I still don't understand is why, when you are going to post a rant about someone asking for others to ban them, you choose to leave out details like WHAT the item was and the fact that he tipped 50k for a500cr item. As the poster of a rant about someone whom you identify by nameI believe you have a responsibility to represent the WHOLE truth..not just the parts that make the audience sympathetic to you. Please keep this in mind the next time you identify someone by name and ask others to ban them from their stores.

Btw, I have no affiliation with Carg. I simply feel he was wronged in the portrayal of his actions. From my perspective the worst thing he did was not explain every detail about the tissue he was providing to the tailor. But he did tip her 20% of his sale price unsolicited for simply making the combine. It's also the responsibility of a master crafter to know the value of the items they create.

I thought this thing was over but I was told about this thread today so I thought I'd stop past and share my side of the story. I'm the person that this thread is all about. There were also two other threads about this elsewhere.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Valcyn&message.id=55653&page=1

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Valcyn&message.id=56314&highlight=#M56314

So as to avoid a long drawn out explaination about it all I'll give a brief summary of my side of the story. Most people know milk is pretty hard to come by but I managed to get a bit of it. I took the milk to a master BE and had tissues made then I took the tissues to Liriel to have clothing made. She made the clothing and put her name on it. I didn't know she was going to put her name on it nor did I know it would be a problem to resell it. The going rate for a taming shirt is about 400k on my server I sold mine for 240k and she was tipped 50k of that (which I think was more than fair since she didn't have to acquire the milk).

I didn't mark up a piece of her clothing to 240k what I did was basically mark up the milk to 240k the shirt was only the container used to hold the milk. In my shop I have 3 vendors with different product on them. Very few of the items have my name on them for various reasons. My stims are made in my factories from my materials using purchased schematics. Those schems are ran through my factories but don't have my name on them because the factories are placed on someone else lots. My weapons were purchased in bulk for the sum of 1.5 million from a master weaponsmith and have his name on them. The same with my spices and some food.

I'm not an artisian but wear the tag because I was one of the earlier commando's and got sick of people asking to duel me to see if commando's "really are that powerful". I have since dropped the commando skills and am now master CH/novice smuggler/novice TKA and novice medic. I can't produce anything solely on my own so I purchase schematics whenever possible and pay very well for bulk itemswhen necessary.

I had no intentions of causing any trouble whatsoever and was sincerly upset when I learned my name was being slandered all over the boards. I will forever stick to the belief that I did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation and instead will just never do business with this person. I however think the deeper issue is that liriel has questionable ethics in thinking slandering someones name without confronting that person is perfectly fine behaviour. In fact I would never have even known about the threadhad I not stopped to ask her how her day was going one day. I guess the moral of the story is thoroughly check out those that you do business with because if they possess an uneven they can slander you all over the SOE boards and there is nothing you can do about it except hope rational people like yourselves will assess situations without making snap decisions. That being said if anyone wants to ban me or not do business with me because of this minor controversy that is your right and I won't even ask you for an explanation as to why.

MIlk is in fact is more boring to get than rare,,but also still rare,,and your retail pricing is also about right,,and the 50000 tip was also more than fair, I didnt really have much problem with reselling based on the poster's version and with your version it's very clear that you had every right to price the item at whatever the market will pay.

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GalacticHustler wrote:

I took the milk to a master BE and had tissues made then I took the tissues to Liriel to have clothing made. She made the clothing and put her name on it. I didn't know she was going to put her name on it nor did I know it would be a problem to resell it. The going rate for a taming shirt is about 400k on my server I sold mine for 240k and she was tipped 50k of that (which I think was more than fair since she didn't have to acquire the milk).

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The only reasonable problem this person could have is that you didn't mention that the item was for resale. But the large tip for making the item sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If you read through the responses, you'll see that many of us don't really have a problem with reselling. Often people whose visitors get visited by the resellers are pricing under the average server price for there items, so that extra middleman bumping up the prices a little helps keep many tailors from feeling that they have to try and price compete with undercutters.

There is the "it has my name on it, and my name is my reputation" arguement against reselling, but any reasonable customer (and in fact any reasonable crafter)understands that once an item has left your shop you have no control over what is done with it. Sure, I've had a couple of customers give me a hard time because they bought a used piece of my clothing at a cheaper price than I sell it, or some such silliness. But any customer giving me grief over something like that is the kind of person I'm not too worried about getting repeat business from. Because the customer is not always right. Sometimes the customer is an annoyingmoron. That may sound a little harsh, but if you've ever worked a day of RL retail you know exactly what I mean.

Personally I don't build a customer's tissues into clothes just to avoid this kind of drama. This is purely a selfish decision based on the fact that I don't want to get yelled at for crit failing on someone's high-dollar bonus tissues. Custom work like that is a huge hassle. If I crit fail on my own tissues, no big deal. Sure it's annoying, but my prices have a bit of cushion built in for exactly that reason. Screwing up with someone else's material is a much bigger deal. It always gets you yelled at, and I always feel responsible for reimbursing the person which can be a large financial hit. So I just don't want to bother with all that.

But even if I did craft with other people's components, I'd set what I thought was a reasonable price for the service, then what the customer does with the item is their business. Same policy I have for everything that I sell. It's kind of arrogant to think you should have control over what others do with the items they've bought and paid for. That's an assumption none of us should ever make.

I wouldn't worry too much about this person ruining your reputation. If you have a decent one, a whiner or two shouldn't be able to shake it. If anything, people will probably feel sorry for you because you had someone complain about you in multiple threads,despite the fact that youactually had a reasonable explaination for the situation.

well I wish you were on Bria because I would work deals with you for resale all the time.

half of my business is merchants marking up and reselling my stuff. If people want the good prices they can find my unadvertised vendor. But after getting to master tailor I had to give up global advertising so i have a lot of merchants that buy, mark up, and resell my stufff.

It is not my reputation at stake because people know I am not selling it to them. If the merchant wants a reputation as an overpricer so be it. But really, if it is selling, then the price is not too high is it?

Carg,

I agree with all you said, except for one thing: since she didn't use your name, there is no slander here. People only know you're the one she was talking about because you made that claim yourself.

As far as everything else you said, yea, sounds like a reasonable thing you did. 50k seems like an extremely generous tip to me. Your prices are high but not obscene, and and I'd bet a lot of tailors would love to have their names on CH enhanced clothing, which is one of the rarer, more highly sought after, items in the game right now.

Hey, Arthur....she did use his name which is why I made my original post defending, Carg. It's in the last paragraph right before her sig. Her stating her opinion of the transaction isn't a bad thing at all even if I disagree with her but the fact that she went to several obscure boards and ranted about him, using his name, and didn't tell him where to defend himself or even represent the whole truth is why I deemed it slander.

On a side note, it's good to see other BE's trolling the tailor boards

Once you give or sell an item to somebody it is not your concern whether they sell it or shove it up thier ass. quit your whining

Productive post, slagaroo.

I routinely sell BE clothing at relatively low prices. I say "relatively" because, event though I have a 200% or more profit margin over cost for my retail prices, my items are still remarkably lower in price than many I've seen resold by such vendors. Dresses that I normally sell for 6K are going for 45K or more on some of these resellers.

Are they taking advantage of less informed players? Of course. I caught at least one artisan reselling my items for 10 times what he paid me for them. I was irritated - for about 30 seconds. Then I realized that chuckleheads like this are driving business to me. Why buy an article of clothing from someone who's going to mark it up that high when you can buy directly from me? If he gets a sale, then the chucklehead who overpaid 10 times more than it was worth is out a bundle, and makes my prices look that much better.

I'm not here to drain hard-earned credits from the hands of my customers. I give good value. So, I'm not jacking up my prices in order to have these vultures drive the market, even if these items are selling at much higher prices.

I think the easiest thing to do is:

Remind players that many tailors do custom orders, and that the name of the tailor who created an item is on the item itself. If you like something, contact the tailor directly. Chances are, not only will you not have to pay an arm and a leg for the item, but you'll get it "tailor-made" (ha, ha) to your specifications and color choices.

Filet O'Fish
Master Tailor/Master Bio-Engineer, Corellia, Teris Kava