Tailor Archive
Thread: So how much are you charging for the BE enhanced clothes?
Songe wrote:
Second, I'll ask again, where did you see the 25 cap confirmed?
The only testing I've seen so far seems to confirm the +25 cap. The thread is here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=tailor&message.id=15762
And the tester's conclusion:
"Because +30 in Active Biosensors gave very similar results to +60, and because the experimental data fits the hypnothesis, I conclude that there is indeed a +25 cap on the amount that a given skill can benefit from BE Tissues. The fact that higher bonuses appear on the Skill Mods window is a misleading display bug and should be fixed."
I'm sticking to the conservative side, and telling my customers it is a +25 cap until I hear otherwise. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I wish I could find the first message where I saw a +25 cap mentioned, but I haven't been able to.
"" Ri'a Ocoli"" Master Tailor, Kettemoor
"" Fine Attire by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!
Oh, and I should add that so far I'm finding selling the BE enhanced clothing to be a bit of a pain. It takes FOREVER to explain how it works to people, even whenI give them a website to check out first. After I specifically said that +medicine use was taken out,a customer still complained thatthey couldn't use higher stimpacks immediately after I made them the clothes. And then folksaren't really happy with the clothes choices I can put the enhancements in, so it takes another big chunk of time to find something they can live with.
To be honest, I was already plenty busywith selling regular clothesbefore the patch so I doubt I'll get into the BE side much further than I have.. I'll offer some as a convenience, but I'm not going to market it heavily. I'll leave that to the folks with more patience than me. :-)
"" Ri'a Ocoli"" Master Tailor, Kettemoor
"" Fine Attire by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!
ROFL! oh, my, that's really something. 3 credits per? for 900+ OQ meat, bone, hide? This is NOT tailoring where quality doesn't mean squat, and BE tissues made by hand are close to useless to tailors, so quantitiesMUST be > 1k/stack. It's NOT like tailoring where you put down a heavyharvester and logout and comeback the next morning and have 10k of the stuff. I feel jackpot lucky if I can aquire any of the ingredients needed at 7cr/ea and 10/cr ea is quickly becoming that standard on my server, and I'm now seeing people trying to get 20cr/ea for even so-so quality stuff (owch!).
I think one very overlooked player in this equation when you're talking about riches aquired from the sale of BE enhanced clothing is the creature resource suppliers (rangers mainly). In some ways they may be the biggest winners of all in this, and more power to em. Glad they are now part of the "mainstream economy" of the game.
YetiIronfist wrote:
Let's look at some numbers:
BE Tissues take varying amounts of resources, mostly around 80, stats aren't anywhere near as critical as with crafting weapons, so cost is only 2-3 credits per resources.
Round everything up and call it 100 resources at 3 credits per. That's 300 credits to make a BE tissue.
YetiIronfist wrote:
Even if that situation did come about, and you needed better resources, you'd be talking what... 5 credits per resource? That's HIGH...
Pfft, yea right. After buying up every stack of meat stack that was over 300 in size and 10cr each of less(I know, I'm desperate...) on my planet (Corellia) and the nearby planet of Talus, I had to resort to looking at the "global" bazar, and ended upspending about4k in travel(or so, I forget the exact amount) and an hour of my time to gofrom Corellia to Nabooto Rori and backjust to pick up a few measly500 stacks of meat that I bought at around 8cr/ea. Then I got very lucky in the evening when a ranger on my planet contacted me and set up a deal where he would supply me with good quality meat in nice size stacks for 10cr/ea. I could hardly suppress my excitement over that deal.
So please don't tell us these fables of 3cr or 5cr/unit stacks of meat in quantity. I don't care what quality you're talking about. They simply don't exist anymore (on Bria anyway). Rangers are not stupid, they see the end products of the stuff they aresupplying going for up to 100cr/ea and they want (and deserve) a major piece of that pie.
In fact there are quite a number of people now flooding the bazar with so-so quality (like 400-500 OQ) meat, in stacks of 100 asking 2k for each of them. owch! Hopefully that will not start a trend, and those stacks will timeout (I won't touch em unless I have to) but we'll see how desperate the BE community gets.
You're talking about paying big money for biological resources around 900/900/900.... Well... yeah - those are going to be expensive.
But 900/900/900 gets you +17 or +18. 400/400/400 gets you +13 or +14.
EITHER WAY you stack two pieces of clothing to get over the +25 limit.
And besides, I've gotten to +17 with stuff that was more like 600/600/600.
And yes - I'll definitely grant you that currently eggs are expensive, but they're only used in one of the schematics, and you can't get enough to do factory runs anyway, so those are a small percentage of the overall equation. Hopefully they fix them when they fix mollusks and milk.
As for the +25 cap. The reasons why I'm confident it exists are:
- Used to be there on a per item basis.
- SEAs have been disabled since beta because without a cap they were unbalancing. They have now been re-enabled, so I think it is fair to assume that that is because they put in SOME cap.
- Crafters across the professions have clearly stated that with anything from +20 in experimentation points to over +40, they still only get 12 experimentation points, which points to a cap between 20 and 29.
- Testing on healing effectiveness is showing a definite improvement with +30, and nothing outside statistical noise different for +60.
Add it all up, and it strongly suggests a cap at +25. It is POSSIBLE that they didn't use the same old +25 cap, and instead used a cap like +29. It's also possible that SEAs and BE enhanced clothes work differently, or that different skills have different stats, but I doubt it.
Now, I find that the only way to get a factory run of Enhanced Myoflex is to supply the eggs to my BE supplier myself - so I've got about 260 right now (after a cross-planet jog specifically looking for them - netted about 130, and just looking every chance I get), and will keep on hitting every nest I come across till they shift again - and live with however many tissues I can get out of all that effort (so it might not be worth it to most, but I've got at least 13 factory run tissues socked away for myself). Is it possible to run 100 units of Enhanced Myo? Maybe, if you do absolutely nothing but gather all the way through an egg cycle.
The upshot of all this? I have nothing but sympathy for the BEs, and have yet to see any that are gouging from what I can tell.
Oh, and on the whole question of why 18 is better than 13... it is important for those cases where you are using just one piece of clothing of course. The bonuses seem to roughly work out to about 1% improvement per bonus point, so if you aren't capped, then a 18 will net you 5% more improvement than a 13 will. How much is 5% more healing worth to a doctor? How much is 5% more scent mask worth (if the bonus works the way I think it should, that's 30 seconds more time that mask stays up - currently I have a gut feel that this is broken)? How much would you pay in the real world for a 5% faster Internet connection? How much would you pay for 5% better gas mileage? How much would you pay for a 5% reduced chance of getting a stroke? My point? Just that 5% isn't BIG, but it isn't insignificant either.
Personally, I don't understand the tailors that charge a fixed rate for any one of several different bonuses (i.e. anything from 1-7 costs 500c) - each plus makes SOME (even if it is small) difference in the end effect (well, when the bonuses are working at all, and before you hit your cap) - so why would you not charge extra for that? On top of that, with the exception of +1 and +2, every plus took skill/time/money on the part of the BE that made the tissue, and until you hit tissue caps, the tailor seems to be able to add up to a point more of plus. So that effort is worth nothing? All of this is why I charge a multiplier per plus on top of the base clothing cost.
Ok going to explain again 
1 - there isn't any confirmation of a 25 limit. Even if there was one, people who want to use several enhancements will still want the best on each one. If you want facts, the 10 people who have come to me for custom orders want the best stuff. One even has refused my 14/14 stuff (I haven't managed to get better without master BE with the best quality of stuff I could find, and engineering techniques 4).
2 - stacks of 200/500/600 go for 10cr per on my server. In bazaar the best you get are stacks of 500 for 3k, even bad quality, and the 1000 for 3k are often poor quality. Most of the time it's stacks of 300 or so average quality meat for 3k.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=armorsmith&message.id=14501
And the previous poster that mentioned that when you can't afford to put the same bonus on two pieces of clothing to hit the caps, you want the very best is definitely 100% correct! And custom orders definitely fall into that category, and the category of wanting double tissue bonuses on things like dusters and pants, or wanting the egg/mollusk/milk bonus items.
But unfortunately this situation doesn't arise that much. In the future hopefully there will be a lot more BE tissues added and +18 or better items will demand a real premium. But for now, there aren't more than a few bonuses that any one character would care about. So it's easy to stack 'em up and hit the cap. And then maybe have a couple items that you switch in if you really need that bonus to taming right now, or that bonus to mask scent.