Tailor Archive

Hrrrummm, ok I don't get it. We can't talk about JTLS at all then? I post a simple question about a long standing tailor issue and whether it may or may not be resolved in the JTLS expansion (I said nothing about JTLS beta or any state it may or may not currently be in), and it's gone in less than an hour or so? Come on. That's a little harsh don'tcha think? What was the real problem? How are we supposed to have discussions here if we can't bring up our issues, and how they may or may not relate to future releases, publishes, or expansions? It's not like it involves new information or content. It almost makes me afraid to post.

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NJ62 wrote:

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DanceRulez wrote:
Hrrrummm, ok I don't get it. We can't talk about JTLS at all then? I post a simple question about a long standing tailor issue and whether it may or may not be resolved in the JTLS expansion (I said nothing about JTLS beta or any state it may or may not currently be in), and it's gone in less than an hour or so? Come on. That's a little harsh don'tcha think? What was the real problem? How are we supposed to have discussions here if we can't bring up our issues, and how they may or may not relate to future releases, publishes, or expansions? It's not like it involves new information or content. It almost makes me afraid to post.

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Consider this, though: could anyone answer a question about whether content is or is not coming in JTL without breaking the NDA? Rumors are being spread, and all of those who know whether the rumors are true are barred from confirming or denying.

I didn't create the NDA and I don't delete the posts. I think the reason the NDA is in place is because things in a beta are VERY likely to change, so people may get their hopes up over nothing.

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Ok, fair enough, but if that's the case then a simple non answer or even, "Sorry, but there is no official word on the status of XXX at this time." would suffice. All I asked was whether there had been some announcement on this particular issue, and my post was wiped from existence as if I had committed a sacrilege. Again, I said nothing about Beta, I was simply asking a question regarding any official details about the final version of the expansion.

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RandDarkstar wrote:

Until the beta is finished and JTL goes gold, there is no way to know what will be in or not. Even if we KNEW, there is no point in speculating on the question because it only tempts those that are in the beta to break the NDA.

Suffice to say that the beta is the beta, and when JTL ships, we will be able to find out.

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Jame'thiel, and NJ, I do see where both of you are coming from, and I do understand that SOE doesn't want too much speculation running around and that they don't want some information to be released at all unless and until the new expansion comes out. The crux of my argument, though, is that it seems that we're not even allowed to ask what is a rumor and what isn't because the thing is, some things aren't.

Jame, you mentioned that there is no way to know what will be in the expansion or not, but on this point you are only partly correct. There ARE things we know about what will be in the expansion. We know that Sullustans and Ithorians are going to be new races. We know most or all of the new ships that will be added. We also know something about the new zones they will be adding. This is all information that has been released for general knowledge from the developers and promoters. I'm sure you're aware of these details, but my point is that there has been information released about the expansion so far. These are just some of the details that I know about, but maybe there are some details that I don't know about.

Let me clarify my point with an example. Let's say say that cowboy hats have been a major Tailor request for some time. Let's say that we get requests from customers all the time for cowboy hats, and we've been bugging NJ and the devs for months to let us make cowboy hats. So then a friend in the game tells me that he heard that in the new expansion we're gonna get to make cowboy hats, and that he heard this from some other friend or something. So at this point I don't know if it's true or not, so I come onto the Tailor forums and post a simple question of, "Hey, I heard that we get to make cowboy hats with the new expansion. Anyone know if that's true?" Now maybe some developer was giving an online interview or something that I didn't catch, but happened to mention that they were indeed adding cowboy hats to the new expansion. I didn't happen to see it, but maybe some others did, so they should be able to reply to my thread and say, "Yeah, so-and-so dev said that they were adding cowboy hats." This is no different then if someone were to come in and ask, "Hey, is it true they're adding Ithorians as a race?" because again this would be released information that maybe the person asking the question didn't happen to see already. Going back to the cowboy hats, now, suppose there has been no official word on the matter, and only the devs, and people testing beta happen to know for sure whether or not everyone is flying around in space wearing cowboy hats. Again I come to the Tailor forum to check on our long standing issue of cowboy hats and create the same post asking the same question. Now suddenly it gets deleted. Why is that? The question is that same, only the circumstances have changed. Either way I had no idea going into it whether the rumor I heard was verified or not, but the result is very different due to circumstances I know nothing about, and in the latter case I am made to feel as though I have violated something without knowing exactly what.

But let me take this latter point and clarify it further. Assume again that there has been no official word on cowboy hats whether they are being tested or not. Let's say that I come into the forums here and ask something like, "Hey, someone told me that there are gonna be cowboy hats in the new expansion so can any of you testers or anyone tell me if there are and what they look like???" or even if I asked a question like, "I know there are gonna be cowboy hats in the new expansion, and I wanna know if they're gonna use synth cloth or fiberplast panels, and how many other resources I'm gonna need to make one." It's questions like these seem like they should be red flags for the moderators. They pretty clearly target the testing people specifically who are obligated not to say anything, and they request overly specific information that could very likely be subject to change. To me these questions seem very different from the one I asked in the preceeding paragraph. In that one, it is an open ended question that could be answered by anyone if indeed it did happen to be true (as I mentioned). Even if there has been no official word, it's not like it really tempts anyone who does know the answer, but cannot say, any more than the barrage of more specific and detailed questions they likely get from anyone who happens to know that they are a part of the beta testers. I think I know a few myself, but I haven't bothered them with even one question about it. They could even post an answer which simply says that there's been no official word on whether cowboy hats will be included or not. This would at least tell me that the rumor really is just a rumor (and that I haven't missed some confirmed statement on the matter), no one violdated any NDA, and I don't feel like I did something wrong. Even if the post goes completely unanswered, I will figure out that if anyone does know they just can't say and be fine with that, and again, no harm, no foul.

I could easily point out, for example, how the correspondents, like NJ, are privvy to certain information ahead of time, but I bet are also subject to some sort of NDA, and are not allowed to reveal it unless given prior approval. Yet we are always allowed to ask them what they know and what they can tell us. We are not discouraged from asking them questions about what might or might not be coming in some future patch, and they simply let us know what they are or are not allowed to elaborate on. In this particular case we are even allowed to bug those in the know, the correspondents, yet a general question to no one in particular about confirmation of cowboy hats gets a slap on the wrist? Furthermore, if we've been asking about cowboy hats for a long time, why should one more post in the context of a new expansion suddenly get censored? This is my point.

I realize that the forum moderators must often walk a bit of a fine line on what is and what is not appropriate, and that they are just trying to do the best they can with what guidelines the are given, but if it becomes too heavy handed, then useful discussion topics can become lost, and creative discussion can be stifled. Then the whole purpose of these forums as a place to exchange and discuss ideas and opinions becomes lost, and instead becomes a more hostile environment where if you say the wrong thing, you will be silenced. I realize that judgement calls are being made here probably all the time, but all I'm trying to do is to question the judgement in this particular case, and try to prove that we should be able to come in here and ask a question like whether or not cowboy hats will be in an upcoming expansion. At the time that I write this there is a post in the Jedi forum that I reported 5 days ago because it uses profanity and is openly insulting, derogatory, and hostile to other players, but it is still there, and yet here a simple question about cowboy hats and a new expansion is not.

Hi Shi'ann,

It's not that cowboy hat knowledgeis going to hurt the community if it is leaked. The issue is that we don't know what will or won't hurt the community with prior knowledge, sowe can't go talking about the beta in any way. If the developers allowed the practice of asking for rumour confirmations to exist on the forums, then it's possible for you to learn about the Hat of Alderaan.... *Gasp* I let it slip!

We are not talking about rocket science, national defense secrets, or things like that. But an NDA contract is a legally binding agreement. To break it can cause harm to the company. More so, if the company FAILS to take legal action against ANY incident of an NDA violation, they set a precedence allowing others to challenge any further actions they take. I'm sure n'Jessi could probably recite the actual wording of the laws from one of those ebil law texts, but that's not the point.

The devs will remove any thread that does more than speculate, wish about what's in JTL, or talk about the things that have already been posted. They will do so like ninja - silent, instant, no explanation.

It's true that you know some things that have been released, but for the most part, JTL threads are about fishing trips to see what kind of nibbles you get. Some are innocent, but others are not.

I think the reason that these posts have been so heavily modded is that there HAVE been so many leaks, that asking for information just tempts would-be NDA-violators to divulge. And though they can be punished, once the cat is out of the bag, that's it.

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NJ62 wrote:
I think the reason that these posts have been so heavily modded is that there HAVE been so many leaks, that asking for information just tempts would-be NDA-violators to divulge. And though they can be punished, once the cat is out of the bag, that's it.

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Perhaps non-NDA breaking info involving tailors should be stickied at the top of the forum. At this point the *only* information that I know of that does not break the NDA was that interview that mentioned how Ithorian wearables are being made and the suggestion in the arcticle that Ithorians are not going to have the same clothing problems as Wookiees, but maybe more will be made known later. The problem right now is that things change so fast that even if someone lets the cat out of the bag, we might find that it is the wrong cat. There is no use speculating or asking about speculations.

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Gyopi wrote:

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NJ62 wrote:
I think the reason that these posts have been so heavily modded is that there HAVE been so many leaks, that asking for information just tempts would-be NDA-violators to divulge. And though they can be punished, once the cat is out of the bag, that's it.

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Perhaps non-NDA breaking info involving tailors should be stickied at the top of the forum. At this point the *only* information that I know of that does not break the NDA was that interview that mentioned how Ithorian wearables are being made and the suggestion in the arcticle that Ithorians are not going to have the same clothing problems as Wookiees, but maybe more will be made known later. The problem right now is that things change so fast that even if someone lets the cat out of the bag, we might find that it is the wrong cat. There is no use speculating or asking about speculations.

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Okay, stickied all public info, but it's an awful short list

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NJ62 wrote:

Okay, stickied all public info, but it's an awful short list

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Yea. I think all of it was in my post. Maybe more will show up later, though!