Tailor Archive
Thread: Help Bring Back Bio-Armor! Must Read!
AtlantisCH wrote:I know this will not come out the right way, but, in that case, how about they remove synthetic cloths, reinforced fibre panels, and fiberplast panels from armor schematics.
This isn't a flame or anything, but armorsmiths are the most interdependant class in the game, well, maybe docs come close also. We depend on scouts for our hides, and tailors for our cloths. We cannot make armor without these things. Tailors have hides... I'm not complaining as I've grown to like the inter dependance. I feel that an armor specific cloth would only help your profession, I would have no problem with clothes having some resists, as it would speed up the decay of your items, which is what most tailors have wanted all along isn't it?
I'll agree to that if they make Tailors the only people who can color-customize armor.
Armorsmiths would have to hand off created pieces, and Tailors could use a 'customize' command to change it to a color from their spectrum.
If you ask me, there's not ENOUGH interdependency in this game. If I see one more person walking around in brightly colored Padded that all of a sudden comes in colors only *I* should be able to provide, I'm going to puke.
Many many armorsmiths have just spent the few skillpoints to train high enough in tailor to make their own components. So many of you wouldn't be buying bio-enhanced components from us, you'd be making it yourselves. Besides, why would we want to buy the expensive tissues and make them into components for you when we could use those enhanced components ourselves and make much more money from the finished product?
Armorsmiths are already thebest-off crafting class in the game. You have tremendous customizability of your products, you get to use looted items in your crafting, your quality of materials and experimentation points actually count for something. You even have your own special armorsmith content! You got a quest schematic. You have access toall of our master level colors.Much of your armor in those colors looks cooler than any of our martial-style clothing. You are the wealthiest crafter class in game because you have necessary, in-demand, usefulproducts, great-looking styles, and use-based decay, which we have been begging for since release.
Now let's talk about tailors. Our products are pretty customizable, except that our palette choices for many schematics are completely incomprehensible. The only loot that helps clothes are skill tapes, which never drop anymore, and we don't need to use them in crafting, anyone with a socketed item can drop them right in. Our quality of materials counts for nothing. We can't experiment. Our only decay is percentage based death decay that's made large numbers of d00ds hate us (but we don't care much since they were never good customers). Our only decay doesn't affect most of our customer base (entertainers and artisans). Our only real improvements or dev attention since release have been bugfixes. Our metal palette was improved, but that was obviously mostly meant for you because it looks much better on your armor than it does on most of our clothes. The metal colors have a really inconsistent look from item to item on our schematics, and on some of them the choices match horribly with our other available colors on those items.
Before the BE fixes and the armor coloring, clothing was pretty and armor was useful. Pretty fair division of labor. Now armor is pretty, and you also want access to the only thing that helps make our clothing useful. Sorry, we're the wrong people to ask for help on this. I have no sympathy for you wanting your cake and eating it too.
Atlantis,
Ok, I'll come right out and say it, as a tailor I absolutely hate working with armorsmiths. There, I feel all better now. You understand don't you that weare much more competitive than cooperative don't you? We compete to sell people wearables. If someone wears a chest plate from an armorsmith, that's one lessjacket that I'm going to sell. If my sales of synth cloth to armorsmiths increase, it means my sales in tailor goods decrease. Simple as that, because we're selling to the exact same pool of people with a fairly fixed sized wodrobe due to inventory and storage limitations. Right now there is somewhat of a balance. Many want the kinetic resists of armor, but many trade that off against the no-HAM costs and bio engineered benefits of clothing. What you're asking is to tip that balance heavily in the favor of armor.
Plus, nobody wants to be a supplier to others, they'd rather sell the end product. If I went into the Armorsmith forum right now, and suggested that we allow armorsmiths to sell armor component to tailors that would add resists to our clothing I'd get lynched. No doubt about it. Yet that is what you're asking of us. Sell the goose for a handful of eggs. No thank you.
Another thing that I've observed is that many (insert your favorite adjective here) armorsmiths have decided that the best thing to do is to cut out the tailors when it comes to getting needed components. They either (a) take up enough tailor to make them, themselves, or (b) find a gullible tailor to give them schematics for free since we use the same factories anyway. Last time I was asked for a schematic I agreed, but asked for a 5k for for making a 1000 use schematic. I instently regretted doing it, as this is just bad business for a tailor (that's approximately 100k worth of cloths given away for material cost + 5k = terrible deal), but then the loser actually went ballistic and called me every name in the book because I wasn't willing to give it away for free.
So anyway, hopefully you understand now why asking a tailor for support in something that would increase the marketshare of armorsmiths is a rediculous proposition. Kinda like asking a chef to sign a petition to make doctor's buffs stronger. The reaction you get aint gonna be a positive one.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Atlantis,
Ok, I'll come right out and say it, as a tailor I absolutely hate working with armorsmiths. There, I feel all better now. You understand don't you that weare much more competitive than cooperative don't you? We compete to sell people wearables. If someone wears a chest plate from an armorsmith, that's one lessjacket that I'm going to sell. If my sales of synth cloth to armorsmiths increase, it means my sales in tailor goods decrease. Simple as that, because we're selling to the exact same pool of people with a fairly fixed sized wodrobe due to inventory and storage limitations. Right now there is somewhat of a balance. Many want the kinetic resists of armor, but many trade that off against the no-HAM costs and bio engineered benefits of clothing. What you're asking is to tip that balance heavily in the favor of armor.
Plus, nobody wants to be a supplier to others, they'd rather sell the end product. If I went into the Armorsmith forum right now, and suggested that we allow armorsmiths to sell armor component to tailors that would add resists to our clothing I'd get lynched. No doubt about it. Yet that is what you're asking of us. Sell the goose for a handful of eggs. No thank you.
Another thing that I've observed is that many (insert your favorite adjective here) armorsmiths have decided that the best thing to do is to cut out the tailors when it comes to getting needed components. They either (a) take up enough tailor to make them, themselves, or (b) find a gullible tailor to give them schematics for free since we use the same factories anyway. Last time I was asked for a schematic I agreed, but asked for a 5k for for making a 1000 use schematic. I instently regretted doing it, as this is just bad business for a tailor (that's approximately 100k worth of cloths given away for material cost + 5k = terrible deal), but then the loser actually went ballistic and called me every name in the book because I wasn't willing to give it away for free.
So anyway, hopefully you understand now why asking a tailor for support in something that would increase the marketshare of armorsmiths is a rediculous proposition. Kinda like asking a chef to sign a petition to make doctor's buffs stronger. The reaction you get aint gonna be a positive one.
Personally, and I can speak for no one but myself, I wouldn't mind selling armor components to tailors, there are situations that are good for wearing both clothing and armor. Why do you even sell schematics? Really, you do have the option to deny someone that. I started off paying 10k per 100 run schematic of reinforced fibre panels, I realized it actually hurt the tailors if they made schematics thus I paid what would be acceptable to them (at least that one). I have since started paying my guild's tailor, also my roomate to run the pieces for me. How the balance would be heavily tipped in the favor of armorsmiths is beyond me. Have you actually read that entire thread? Have you actually thought about the proposals that some have brought up? Just curious as it seems to me that you feel we're asking for the exact thing the tailors have, we are not.
If no one wants to be a supplier to others, why are there resource miners? Why are their rangers even? Thats right, lets all go out and get everything we need, thus becoming self sufficient. Weaponsmiths are already this way.
As I said in a previous post I have no problem with armorsmiths making armor components for tailors, they would need to be light, as clothing isn't meant to absorb much damage, but it SHOULD absorb some.
One thing to add on decay.. at least when armor decay's it becomes useless.. and is just well.. clothing. When clothing decays now, NOT in the way we had wanted (use based comes to mind)... it just goes to 0/0 but guess what.. it's still well.. clothing.
The ONLY thing we have in our corner is Bio-Enhancements. The death decay penalty is useless as the clothing does not destroy (I'm so hoping they change this). Armorsmiths make more money than we can ever dream of. They gave you our color palet. You can use multiple loot drops to enhance your items. Why do you want to take the only thing that has made us viable again?
/boggle
Srednii wrote:
There isn't a tailor ingame who could compete with the armorsmiths for money to burn.
i beg to differ =P
But as for the topic - Hells no I dont want armorsmithing to be enhanced further...there is nothing wrong with your profession as it stands now. I'd spend my time getting the AS tree balanced so that you can actually sell something before you make Master. And This is coming from a Master Tailor/Expert Armorsmith. Give me back my colors too.
I think the main reson to opposition is that Armorsmiths seem to make a whole lot more than tailors do, and there is a functional use for armorsmith's products. I dont think that tailors would have any problems having to hand a saddle to a creature handler so it could be trained as a mount. But tailore want to have one thing that is special to us. What the armorsmith have said here is. "hey why dont you get more stuff, and let us do what you do." Well most tailors will take offense to that. What would be the point, of needing a tailor. Most people wear armor and would want those benefits while wearing armor.
Plus: tailors can make no enhancements to belts, boots, gloves and only some enhancements to hats. AS would be able to give almostany combination of tissue mods to every piece of armor (well composite i know of anyway...)
And I share the tailor's opinions in this thread. You make armor that protects players from damage. We make clothes for cosmetic purposes only, and we make a few select mods that have a only at best a minor effect on the game.