Tailor Archive
Thread: Ok we have our BE clothing back....now lets get them fixed.
Phendrena wrote:
How would you test maskscent/camo or taming wild/vicious?
It's not like there is a tangable figure that you can see in the combat spam or anything.
Surely the results would just be open to personaly interpretation?
Clueless i am about these things!
Mask scent is very easy to test. Mask scent ability contributes to two things: duration of mask scent, and chance of mask scent breaking. Duration is very easy to quantify, chance of mask scent breaking is more difficult.
Simple test: make sure you are in an area where there are no aggressive creatures around you. hit mask scent, start your watch timer, when it wears off note the time. Repeat that test several times both with masked scent clothing and without. If mask scent clothing results in an increased time, then you know that at least that portion of it is working, and you can surmise that they other portion is working too.
With all the problems that masked scent has however, it's very questionable whether anyone will actually want masked scent clothing. Personally, even though I have exploration 4, I don't use mask scent anymore, because I'm better off not using it 9 times out of 10. It's a situation where grey cons won't aggro me, and things that are higher level that will aggro me will certainly break my masked scent anyway. That plus all the rediculous bugs that seem to have plagued masked scent ever since the CU, makes using masked scent extremely undesirable in most circumstances.
Taming is another thing entirely. To me, it's not worth testing because it's not worth selling or buying. The usefulness this tissue used to have has been nerfed by changes to the CH profession post-CU.
P.S. the "buyer beware" attitude where you know that it doesn't work and sell it anyway is pretty sleazy imo. If I ever discovered that a tailor was knowingly selling me broken stuff for a lot of credits, that would be the last time I ever bought anything from that tailor.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 08-09-2005 11:32 AM
JamieHex wrote:
No clue bout low lvl toons. I tested with lvl 80. Bh/rifle versus jedi. Dmg is lessened. if you are talking bout low lvl toons being hit by a lvl 80 it makes no difference what they wear. Damage is computed differently when something is overwhelming to you.
Jamie,
Since this would be the first time anyone has tested and concluded that they *did* work, could you please provide some details about your test?
The problem with testing is that we don't really know what formulas are used in determing hits and damage, or how a skill works.
Without such knowledge true testing cannot take place.
+25 may be so negligible in the new system as to make little to no difference with most if not all skills.
I will state that I do think the Augment is broken for sure because the string is broken. It isn't named Augment Efficiency and is not added to the character sheet, which heavily implies it for sure is not working.
I don't use the Defense foods or drinks because I've found using the dodge ones like Pikatta Pie are much more effective. However I've noticed that I'm not sure Defense works ( Melee or Ranged ) or at least it seems to have very little effect. The more accuracy is greater than your defense score the more damage is applied, however even using Akuan Rings, defense foods, md/rd clothing....I've noticed almost no difference in damage dealt. However as I said the change of only 25 may not be significant enough to induce a noticeable change depending on the equation used by the game.
MeciniaLua wrote:
The problem with testing is that we don't really know what formulas are used in determing hits and damage, or how a skill works.
Without such knowledge true testing cannot take place.
+25 may be so negligible in the new system as to make little to no difference with most if not all skills.
I will state that I do think the Augment is broken for sure because the string is broken. It isn't named Augment Efficiency and is not added to the character sheet, which heavily implies it for sure is not working.
I don't use the Defense foods or drinks because I've found using the dodge ones like Pikatta Pie are much more effective. However I've noticed that I'm not sure Defense works ( Melee or Ranged ) or at least it seems to have very little effect. The more accuracy is greater than your defense score the more damage is applied, however even using Akuan Rings, defense foods, md/rd clothing....I've noticed almost no difference in damage dealt. However as I said the change of only 25 may not be significant enough to induce a noticeable change depending on the equation used by the game.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 08-09-2005 04:11 PM
JamieHex wrote:
Mods r working for Def etc. The aug thing well thats a buff cap issue. The link in that post above is VERY old. Mods were fixed after that. Anyway did test to make sure def were still working and it is.
Augmentation effeiciency shows up as a odd string on the final clothing as though the mod is broken and doesnt add your your augmentation efficiency mod on skil sheet nor does it have any effect on a non master doc buffs in duration.
Defence unless its been fixed would show on character sheet but make no difference. Take a low level character and hit them a few times with and without the clothing and note the damage and number of misses.
Id be amazed if it was fixed tbh.
Oblox wrote:
JamieHex wrote:
Mods r working for Def etc. The aug thing well thats a buff cap issue. The link in that post above is VERY old. Mods were fixed after that. Anyway did test to make sure def were still working and it is.
Augmentation effeiciency shows up as a odd string on the final clothing as though the mod is broken and doesnt add your your augmentation efficiency mod on skil sheet nor does it have any effect on a non master doc buffs in duration.
Defence unless its been fixed would show on character sheet but make no difference. Take a low level character and hit them a few times with and without the clothing and note the damage and number of misses.
Id be amazed if it was fixed tbh.
No clue bout low lvl toons. I tested with lvl 80. Bh/rifle versus jedi. Dmg is lessened. if you are talking bout low lvl toons being hit by a lvl 80 it makes no difference what they wear. Damage is computed differently when something is overwhelming to you.
JamieHex wrote:
Mods r working for Def etc. The aug thing well thats a buff cap issue. The link in that post above is VERY old. Mods were fixed after that. Anyway did test to make sure def were still working and it is.
OK not entirley sure about this, tested last night and it deffinatly didnt work.
test 1, lvl 80 Vs lvl 80 PvP with no Be clothing on, with a +14 Range/Mele defensive shirt and with a +14 Range/Mele Defensive Shirt and a +6 Pair of pants (+20 in total) all the same damage, sorry some friends were testing this out, so I have no numbers.
test2, decided to do this mysel fto get some numbers. So while I was out On Kash getting some DNa for some lvl 10 pets (all but 1 of them turned out at lvl 9!!!!!!!!!!) i would get aggroed somtines collecting DNa, so i though perfect time to test it.
No BE defensive clothes, lvl 16 character 0/0 range mele/defence,
- a lvl 18 roo-roo hit me for 312 damage
- a lvl 17 pig-jumper hit me for 268 damage
1 BE shoulder pad (I'm a wook) +6/+6 range/mele defence
- a lvl 18 roo-roo hit me for 312 damage
- a lvl 17 pig-jumper hit me for 268 damage
although +6/+6 was displlayed in the character screen
1 BE shoulder pad (I'm a wook) +14/+14 range/mele defence
- a lvl 18 roo-roo hit me for 312 damage
- a lvl 17 pig-jumper hit me for 268 damage
although +14/+14 was displlayed in the character screen.
So, they dont appear to make a difference, I will not say they are not working at I think there may be somthing in the game mechanics that renders them useless, possibly the modifiers on combat, in respect to lvl Vs lvl, or accuracy Vs defence simpl eare too large for even the maximum +25 BE component to even make a difference to the numbers.
Either way it needs to be addressed, as do all the rest of the tissues, as the ony tissues I can confirm are working are the Healing efficency and the terrain negotialion part of the unarmed damage/terrain negatiation. Seriously, they should have left it broken, as now I cant sell anything, but pepol ekeet asking for it, it is a complete wast of resources to mak the majority o fthe tissues toa decent level at the moment
Beswa
GoldMemberBria wrote:
Here's the problem that I have with that.
#1 +25 is a lot in the new system. Consider that someone with no combat skills has 0 melee defense but a master brawler has +20 melee defense. Or consider that a novice Teras Kasi Artist has +25 melee defense, and a Teras Kasi Master has +85 melee defense. However you want to look at it, +25 is a lot relative to the skills that one gains through progression in a combat profession.
#2 It's all well and good to be talking about a mod not making a big difference, or that there is a steep dropoff in how much benefit you get at the higher end of the scale, but we'd still be seeing some difference... right? If you are getting hit by something that does 500 points of damage, even two-tenths of a percentage difference would be detectable. Are you suggesting that it is likely that there is a difference but it is less than two tenths of a percent?
Like I said... I don't buy it. I hope that JamieHex really did find some benefit to them, but a lot of people havenow tested it and found no benefits to themwhatsoever, not even a very small one.
MeciniaLua wrote:
The problem with testing is that we don't really know what formulas are used in determing hits and damage, or how a skill works.
Without such knowledge true testing cannot take place.
+25 may be so negligible in the new system as to make little to no difference with most if not all skills.
I will state that I do think the Augment is broken for sure because the string is broken. It isn't named Augment Efficiency and is not added to the character sheet, which heavily implies it for sure is not working.
I don't use the Defense foods or drinks because I've found using the dodge ones like Pikatta Pie are much more effective. However I've noticed that I'm not sure Defense works ( Melee or Ranged ) or at least it seems to have very little effect. The more accuracy is greater than your defense score the more damage is applied, however even using Akuan Rings, defense foods, md/rd clothing....I've noticed almost no difference in damage dealt. However as I said the change of only 25 may not be significant enough to induce a noticeable change depending on the equation used by the game.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 08-09-2005 04:11 PM
+25 is not a lot when you look and see that your defense is already over 100 and possibly approaching 200 assuming a full template. If you have 100, its a 25% increase, if you have 200 its only a 12.5% increase.
However it has been argued by many that the defense stat itself does nothing and is the actual bug, not the clothing, food or other defense items. At the same time most people have an accuracy that is higher than their defensive value ( assuming a full combat template ).
If the damage reduction from increased defense is less than 1/10th of a percent, then it would become negligible and never factor in. In your example a 500 would become a 499, which is fairly negligible and mostly meaningless. It is possible that there is an error in the equation where someone has the decimal place in the wrong place, which is why it seems not to work.
It has been proven that those that use the accuracy drinks do indeed do significant more damage. Therefore accuracy is not the problem.