Tailor Archive
Thread: The more I think about it, the more disgusted I become..
I started this game in Week 2 of release. My intention from Day 1 was Tailor/Armorsmith with some Merchant thrown in. I've never possessed any combat skill beyond enough pistol to shoot womp rats and vrelts.
The really cool thing about chosing the combination that I did was that I could color armor.
Yet again, something is taken from Tailors... armorsmiths will now be able to do this without having to give up the points for tailoring.
So... what can Tailors do?
Gee... we can make a product for an ever-declining market.
What have we gained in 4 months since launch...
Hmm. Can't think of a dang thing. Oh, I know it sounds nice to say 'we got 55 more colors on Master Tailor'. You know what? We had those in BETA... they took them away, and then gave them back to us. Maybe I should try this trick at Christmas... take something that you already own and then give it to you later.
Let's see... anything else? Can now wear some long gloves (not all, BTW... try wearing Heavy Gloves) with jackets. Uh, hello? That was a BUG, not an addition to the profession. Same thing for that backpack issue... we didn't gain anything. A bug was fixed.
What have we lost?
Top of the list would be EXPERIMENTATION. Half our freakin' skills were tossed in the ol' round file. Thanks for that, sir, may I have another?
Oh, goodie! You've now taken away all pretense of clothing decay by removing the stat completely. Thanks for limiting the world market to a finite volume of about 4x the number of players permitted on the server. That's pretty much the most clothing that can ever be sold. Thank you, sir, may I have another?
The upcoming patch will remove the one advantage I had of being a tailor, if I also made the laborious up armorsmith. Yeah! Thank you, sir, may I have another?
I cringe to think what else they can take away and still even call us tailors.
Only the fact that we have to be able to make clothes to qualify for the name tailor saves us from that trespass... but the rate things have been going, I wonder if the thought hasn't occurred to someone on the dev team. Otherwise, I'm sure they'd decide that the answer to that armorsmith/tailor schematic bug is just to take away those pesky clothes. (Instead, they resolved it by making it pointless to be a tailor... so as everyone drops tailoring, the bug will 'miraculously' disappear.)
Maybe that's the approach? If they make the class completely non-vivable, and squeeze every drop of fun out of it, then nobody will play it, so they won't have to fix it. They certainly haven't seemed incline to actually make it better.
I certainly appreciate that as a group, the tailors have been very patient. There are a lot of my fellow tailors that have 'kept a stiff upper lip' and all that... putting as positive a spin as possible on things. Meanwhile, the armors whine about color, and they get it. Combatants whine about the encumberance of armor, and they get it lightened. And so on, and so on, and so on. For nearly 4 months, I've kept a positive attitude and tried to support other aspiring tailors. For all that time, I've just scratched my head and wondered 'what are they b!t#hing about' when other things have been pushed through. And I can't even get them to read a single CSR after months.
All in all, it's just become entirely too frustrating. Tailoring has taught me one thing, however... how to survive entirely off a mission terminal. I can run my harvesters entirely off mission funds. I'm tempted to do this, grind to master armorsmith and then start dumping composite on the market for 1000cr a full set. Maybe once I've made the marketplace as untenable for every other crafter as it is for tailors, they'll all quite whining and go become commandos.
*deep breath*
You know, it's not that there are less tailors than their used to be. It's the armorsmiths and some of the weaponsmiths that are quitting and changing professions, not the tailors. The thing is, of all the tailors I knew 3 months ago, I've only seen 2 of them on line in the last month. I think so much fun has been sucked right out of this profession that they just don't bother to play anymore.
The silence should scream at the devs louder than any complaints.
On that note, I think I'll be looking long and hard about whether or not to continue with this fruitless profession any longer.
I can half sympathise with where you are coming from but I also think you're being awfully negative 
Armour hueing being linked to our tailoring line was always a bug. That was announced a long time ago. If it hadn't been a bug could it have added to our profession? Well, on one side, tailors would have had the advantage of being able to produce coloured armour initially. On the other side, all those hundred of armoursmiths out there would have been heading up our profession. You think they'd all stop just at the tailoring line? No way If they're going up one line you can bet a percentage would think they may as well go up another..... maybe flood the market even more with extremly low priced dusters or packs. Personally I prefer that their profession isnt linked to ours in any way. They never wanted to be in our profession and I for one dont want them there either
Experimentation: What did we lose? It never worked. You could click little boxes, make them turn a different colour and to what end? To effect durability........... what durability? It never worked, we didnt lose anything here.
Clothing Decay: The patch when they removed our experimentation was badly worded. They said something along the lines of due to popular demand, decay wouldnt be implemented. A dev then came on this board and explained things more clearly. In beta they used time based decay which was unpopular. They were refering to the fact that they were going to rethink decay completly to find a workable solution for both the tailors and the non tailors. We arent the only profession facing a saturated market. Look at the architects. Their products dont decay. They can depend initially upon customers upgrading harvesters and maybe houses but what then? They have undercut each other to the point where they barely make any profit and what hope do they have?
The tailoring profession is in need of attention thats for sure and some form of decay needs to be implemented. But I dont see how we are any more broken than we were at the start You mention colours, yes they were in Beta and it's wrong that they didn't make release. But they didn't and Im happy that I now have them. Maybe they were only giving back what they once took away. But i didnt play in Beta, I never had them and I wanted them.
We are tailors. We make clothes in attractive colours and sell them. Armour should never have been anything to do with us. When the new patch goes live, we have the option to put working skill bonuses into our clothes. Yes, they should have been working at release but can we be the ones to cry over that? How about leaving that to the bioengineers. Its their broken line. It effects us, yes, but them more. So after the patch we will be able to make clothing, in attractive colours and add skill enhancments to them to make them more attractable to the more armour enclined people. To be honest, I think that is a nice summary of a tailor profession.
We need decay of course. But let the armoursmiths have their profession. I for one never started tailoring thinking it had any releation to making armour.
/quote
"The really cool thing about chosing the combination that I did was that I could colour armor.
Yet again, something is taken from Tailors.... armorsmiths will now be able to do this without having to give up the points for tailoring."
/end quote.
Armour being hueable was never around at this point. It came much later in the game. Armoursmiths shouldnt need to give up their points to dye their armour.
Anyways, all just my opinion.
Kind Regards,
Tally, Master Tailor of Eclipse
Experimentation: What did we lose? It never worked. You could click little boxes, make them turn a different colour and to what end? To effect durability........... what durability? It never worked, we didnt lose anything here.
It did work. We used durability for components. Did you know that if you experiemented up your components a master tailor would rarely fail on making an item? Did you know that master tailored components for armorsmiths, that were experimented up, would give the armor better stats? Did you know that armorsmiths are as upset about US not having the ability to experiment on panels and cloth as we are? It was one of the nice things for master tailors, actually. Our cloth and panels, as a master, were worth a lot more to an armorsmith than someone who had just made field wear 2. Armorsmith and Tailoring WERE tied by the mere fact they need our cloth and panels. It was a LOGICAL path to go tailor/armorsmith just as entertainers often become master dancers/musicians. It seems to me that a person who was a tailor and an armorsmith would, indeed, make nicer armor that looks better just because of their experience as a tailor. While that may not be a popular idea with armorsmiths, it would be one reason that a tailor would have to become an armorsmith. Think about it.
Well, as for negativity...I fail to understand how being realistic is always being negative. Has anyone read the patch message on Test? Guess what...Tailors get 55 new colors added to the master palette...in the NEXT patch. Are those the same 55 new colors we got last patch...or are these new ones? Are they to be added to the other palettes...or are they still only on the fabric palette? Hmm...well...are they taking out the colors soon to give them back to us on the patch? I dunno but it appears that nothing has been done for tailors, the experimentation isn't coming back and we're not getting decay. How, exactly, can folks be positive about this stuff.
Bah, its silly to go onward, I am just playing my other character and waiting for them to wake up and smell the coffee.
Bridget
Wanderhome
There may be some placebo effects at work, but the devs said experimentation produced no actual in-game effects other than increasing item complexity, and I've yet to see any hard evidence that this is incorrect.
moody628 wrote:
Yet again, something is taken from Tailors... armorsmiths will now be able to do this without having to give up the points for tailoring.
While I am not going to debate whether tailors need more things, that is an ongoing deveopment issue - I'm not following the logic here.
Armorsmiths no longer have to have tailoring skills to do their product - ok....how is this bad?
Or do you like the idea of the ranks of tailors being inflated with more folks than wouldotherwise have the skill if they didn't need it for something else?
I'm failing to see how this is a bad thing.
I could potentially see an armorsmith thinking they were being hit if they had given up points to be able to specialize in color to seperate them from the rest of the pack - but I don't see how any primary tailor can complain about this.
And although perhaps no longer unique in armorsmithing circles from their brethren - I'd think the points this frees up for something else would be a welcome change.
Im going to reiterate what Bindy (spelling - sorry if its wrong dear) said. According to the armoursmiths that I have always dealt with, there was zero difference on my fuly experimented cloth and a cloth with zero experimentation
Kind Regards,
Tally, Master Tailor of Eclipse
Oh and also, to my knowledge we haven't been told that we are NOT getting decay, just that there needs to be a more workable solution than time based decay.
Kind Regards,
Tally, Master Tailor of Eclipse
p.s. sorry bindi, i did spell your name wrong 
Azyre wrote:
Well, as for negativity...I fail to understand how being realistic is always being negative. Has anyone read the patch message on Test? Guess what...Tailors get 55 new colors added to the master palette...in the NEXT patch. Are those the same 55 new colors we got last patch...or are these new ones? Are they to be added to the other palettes...or are they still only on the fabric palette? Hmm...well...are they taking out the colors soon to give them back to us on the patch? I
This confused me too, I posted about it in the thread on the new patch but Vandessa said it was an error, they never should have put that in the patch notes and it was referring to the previous 55 color fix.
"Oh and also, to my knowledge we haven't been told that we are NOT getting decay, just that there needs to be a more workable solution than time based decay."
Actually we have, we've been told that clothing decay will show up as part of a universal on-incap decay hit thing that affects ALL items. It's silly. Rather than have decay systems for each type of item, like they SHOULD, they decided to take what little knowledge their remaining programmers haveto come up with some glossed over and vague all-around decay "system" that of course, like all things, is 100% based on combat.
There's very little hope for Clothing Decay, and certainly nothing that would get us our expiermentation back. I've seen *NO* evidence that there's a "Tailoring Developer" anywhere like there is for BEs, Combat, Scout and Creature Handlers. Apparently there's a "general crafting" dev who has no time to spend on tailoring issues or the multitude of Droid Engineer problems he's also supposed to be handling.
Till we get a Dev of our own I doubt you'll see anything other than nerfs and bug fixes for the Tailoring Profession for a very.. very.. very long time.
It is getting frustrating. I used to think that they would pay just as much attention to crafting as to combat. After all, we have this great player economy, producers should be just as important as consumers. But I think that the crafting professions as a whole (and especially the ones like tailor and chef that aren't directly supporting combatants) just aren't getting supported by the devs. At least not nearly as well as combat types. Maybe it was unrealistic of me to expect we'd get equal time, but that's kind of what they lead us to believe.
Combat professions are constantly getting bug fixes and balancing, they're getting new content in the form of new quests and dungeons. We get the occasional bug fix but hear nothing about our other issues. We've constantly requested crafter-specific quests, and all we got were the generic crafting mission terminals that anyone with a few levels in artisan can do. They're okay for credits, but just aren't any fun. I feel evenmore sorry for entertainers, their missionstake longer than deliveries and paid less last time I checked. Andthere are no medic specific missions that Iknow of.I guess putting in more monster filled dungeons is easier than adding high level content for noncombatants.
All of the real content seems combat oriented. All faction participation is combat based. I know that's because it's the PVP system, but I want to help the rebels even though I'm not a very good fighter. You'd think the Rebellion or Empire would have plenty to do for crafters (especially the low-on-resources Rebel Alliance!), and I wish we'd get more ways to help the war effort. Right now the only things I can do for my faction are give rebs a discount, take out thewimpiest ofImperial NPCs,and die in the streets of Moenia when someone whips out their AT-ST.
I'm willing to bet thatall the plansfor the monthly stories so far are combat based. They say that everyone should be able to participate if they group with marksmen or brawlers, but I doubt we'll ever get a part of the story arc that requires the fighters to group with us. Imagine the look on all the leet kids faces if they were told that next month's story would involvesurveying for their faction orcrafting x-wing parts or uniforms!
Lets totally forget how much money those of us that are friends with bio engineers are going to be raking in. Heck people wanted the enhanced clothing when it didnt work. Imagine when it actually does! oh yeah we're so sad and poor and pitiful =(
Kar, I don't think its a matter of us being poor...I think its a matter that we aren't working properly. The frustration is in knowing how it *should* work, what *should* happen, but not being able to get there. On top of the fact that without things like decay and reasonably timed influx of new content we will stagnate and we will become obsolete or forced to undersell people on the bazaar getting rid of used clothing.
FYI ALL the armorsmiths that I have dealt with complain that they a) have more fails on cloth not experimented and b) have decreased durability. I dunno what the armorsmiths you guys have worked with are smoking, but Master level experimented cloth WAS much better...by as much as 65%. We've even had armorsmiths post in *this* forum complaining about the lack of experimentation.
All I can say is this. Instead of giving us decay and making experimentation a needed thing they took out experimentation and basically said...you wait til we figure out how to decay everything in the same way. Well, that can't reasonably happen, because it will create a lot of problems. So, basically we wait forever. Not a big deal...I have other characters to play and will wait it out...just curious...how many of you are going to pay for second and third accounts? Makes ya think?
Bridget
Wanderhome
donnah42 wrote:It is getting frustrating. I used to think that they would pay just as much attention to crafting as to combat. After all, we have this great player economy, producers should be just as important as consumers. But I think that the crafting professions as a whole (and especially the ones like tailor and chef that aren't directly supporting combatants) just aren't getting supported by the devs. At least not nearly as well as combat types. Maybe it was unrealistic of me to expect we'd get equal time, but that's kind of what they lead us to believe.
Combat professions are constantly getting bug fixes and balancing, they're getting new content in the form of new quests and dungeons. We get the occasional bug fix but hear nothing about our other issues. We've constantly requested crafter-specific quests, and all we got were the generic crafting mission terminals that anyone with a few levels in artisan can do. They're okay for credits, but just aren't any fun. I feel even more sorry for entertainers, their missions take longer than deliveries and paid less last time I checked. And there are no medic specific missions that I know of. I guess putting in more monster filled dungeons is easier than adding high level content for noncombatants.
>
The developers have a huge number of people all screaming about their particular issues in the game and they are trying to keep people happy. Unfortunatealy, I think they have taken the wrong approach to solving their problems. One of the devs (I think it was Holocron) mentioned that at their meetings they discuss the top issues/complaints that people have submitted during the day. The unfortunate side effect of this approach is that the popular professions (who have more people to scream) get fixes and enhancements and the less popular ones (like tailors, squad leaders, merchants, etc.) get put on the back burner. What is worse is that this appears to set up a vicious cycle. For example, when they fixed commandos, it seemed like everyone rushed to become one. That leads to more people in that profession to scream about every little issue, so they get more attention and fixes, etc. Anyway, if they keep going this way, people will be able to get T21 rifles in their favorite shade of blue before other broken professions get fundimental issues solved.
Anyway, I think that they need to take a different approach. It would be nice if they realized that they are not going to make everyone happy and discuss one of the top issues of *every* profession during their meetings and try to fix these issues. I know that some of the issues are tough to solve. I don't expect that they will be able to give us decay, for example, very quickly. But they can use one of the mini-patches to fix the invisible necklace issue in a reasonable amount of time. Of course, this leaves a larger group of people complaning that they fixed something "stupid" like necklaces when the armor piercing of the DX2 pistol is broken (I have a pistoleer character and I wish they would fix this too), but at least it would be fair to everyone and not just the popular professions who can yell the loudest.
Too bad none of the people responsible for the game are likely to read this....