Tailor Archive
Thread: My first order, and a question about pricing
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spatuluk
Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:00 am
#1
I got my first custom order yesterday, and boy did it feel good! A fellow artisan asked for an all white suit with 2 sockets on every piece of clothing. I made him uniform boots, crafter pants, muscle shirt, cold weather jacket, workman belt, a swoop helmet, and workman gloves. All in all I think it looked pretty good.. not quite my personal taste, but he seemed to like it. I sold it all for 20k, which was his offer - I quoted 12k, which turned out to be less than I would've costed if I'd put them on my vendor. That brings me on to my next question...
I'm currently pricing my stuff as ((resources * 2) * complexity) + (sockets * 50), does this seem fair to you experienced guys and gals?
I'm currently pricing my stuff as ((resources * 2) * complexity) + (sockets * 50), does this seem fair to you experienced guys and gals?
DarthBigglesworth
Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:31 am
#2
im also confused as to what i should charge for clothes, as i harvest my own resources and make my own components in bulk its not really costing all that much to manufacture clothing, currently i charge a base rate of 1500cr then +500cr per socket. anyone have a good equation to work out their prices?
spatuluk
Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:10 am
#3
There's a price calculator at http://zachary.org/swg/ which I have looked at and I *think* is similar to my equation, but I'm not totally sure (I forgot that hide prices might be more than normal resources when I worked mine out)
On chimaera most resources go for 2cpu, which is what the resources*2 part of my equation is for. I did ponder charging more for sockets, just so that a customer who doesn't really want them won't buy up clothing that a socket seeking customer would want.. maybe 50 is too low..
On chimaera most resources go for 2cpu, which is what the resources*2 part of my equation is for. I did ponder charging more for sockets, just so that a customer who doesn't really want them won't buy up clothing that a socket seeking customer would want.. maybe 50 is too low..
spatuluk
Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:27 am
#4
oh, and I also harvest all my own resources. You could use average server costs like I do, or try and work it out yourself:
First work out how much power costs by measuring how much power you collect over an hour, and then divide it by the maintenance cost.
For example: Say it collects 50 units of power in an hour, and it costs 25 credits an hour to maintain - thats 2cpu.
To work out how much a resource costs, measure how much resources the harvester collects in an hour. Add the cost of an hours power to the maintenance cost, and then divide the resource by that cost.
For example: A harvester collects 90 units an hour, maintenance is 30 credits an hour, and it uses 3 units of power an hour. 90 / (30 + (3*2)) = 2.5cpu
For clothes, you will also have to take into account the cost of powering and maintaining a factory. I guess that'd be similar to working out the harvesting costs, but I currently don't use a factory so have no idea how they work (yet)
Did that make any sense?
First work out how much power costs by measuring how much power you collect over an hour, and then divide it by the maintenance cost.
For example: Say it collects 50 units of power in an hour, and it costs 25 credits an hour to maintain - thats 2cpu.
To work out how much a resource costs, measure how much resources the harvester collects in an hour. Add the cost of an hours power to the maintenance cost, and then divide the resource by that cost.
For example: A harvester collects 90 units an hour, maintenance is 30 credits an hour, and it uses 3 units of power an hour. 90 / (30 + (3*2)) = 2.5cpu
For clothes, you will also have to take into account the cost of powering and maintaining a factory. I guess that'd be similar to working out the harvesting costs, but I currently don't use a factory so have no idea how they work (yet)
Did that make any sense?
Aynianu
Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:08 am
#5
Not sure id charge differently for sockets unless they was 4 personally.
I charge more on 4 socket bio wear but other than that sockets have no basis on my prices at all.
I never base my prices on resource cost too much except for bio wear / schematic clothing, but on time it takes me to make things vs how fast they sell.
NJ62
Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:15 am
#6
There's an updated calculator (in the link directory) which also includes the new wearables (Zachary's is out of date).
spatuluk
Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:24 am
#7
Do you mean Zephyria's Calculator? That link doesn't seem to work for me. :s
AllyaEcati
Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:28 am
#8
I used to change the price based on sockets and it turned out to be a HUGE pain! I suggest having a set price for everything, and maybe jacking it up a bit if they ask specifically for 4 sockets. Believe me, you will be thanking me later!
On another note, I did not price by resource cost. I find many tailors underprice their items due to this. Time is worth far more than any resource. Shop around and see what other tailors are pricing their wares at. I found that some would price really low, while the more established tailors were a bit higher. I priced my goods on the higher end and they still sold.
Jutewr
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:19 am
#9
I set my prices using Zephyria's Calculator. I used 13 cpu as a base and up to 20 cpu for the more rare resources, plus a modifier for higher tier items, which gives me prices that range from 500 creds for simple shirtsand things, to 11500 for Grand MayoralRobes.I find that the prices I got work out quite well for me. I don't get sold out every day, but I do sell a few things. I find that my prices are on the high end for my server, but they save me the trouble of having to restock large amounts every day. And I never price based on sockets, and actually tell people who want certain numbers of sockets to find another tailor, as it is just too much of a hassle for me.
NJ62
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:40 am
#10
I was alerted to the fact that Zephyria's calc is offline so I took it out of the link directory. But fear not. The new and improved tailor calculator (and I don't remember who submitted it, but it's GREAT) is updated for the new schematics (Ithorian and otherwise) and your prices can be sorted by name, tier, or price. I have used it for all my prices, I think with a 15 c/p/u base, and then played around with multipliers, factory costs, etc.
Falech
Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:50 pm
#11
For those who care... 
I had a though time myself coming up with a good pricing scheme. I just wasn't satisfied with the prices that all those calculators spat out. I found those prices too low for my taste. As it has already been said, I consider my time the valuable that is to be paid for mostly, not the cost in resources. In fact, I think it is both that should be paid for by the customer.
Like IRL, resources and manufacturingusually costvery little, compared toresearch and development costs that are involved. R&D is exactly what Tailoring is all about for me: the time it takes to come up with good color combo's and well-rounded outfits (off-course, I still sell most garments individually...
)
The various calculators on thewebrelyheavily on resources and their costs for their pricing outputs. Of course they also allow several skill level modifiers to be defined. Despite this however, I still found it difficult to accept anything they came up with.
Then I considered pricing everything according to skill level, like some tailors do, but found I'd have to make to many exceptions. Of many items, I found the price would be too high for whatyou got,if I priced those according to the skill level.
The Formula
After a few months of trying out pricing schemes and thinking about them, I composed a simple formula that also incorporated the use of an item's schematic data size and complexity. Something I had long thought of wanting to have a part in the price. So, here's what I use now:
(((∑ unnamed resources)+ (2 x (∑ named resources)) x (complexity x schematic data size))+ (component costs)
Explanation
For those unfamilair with the symbol, ∑ means "summa" (it's latin) and indicates the cumulative amount of that which it precedes (in this case, unnamed and named resources)
Component costs are also calculated according to this formula, with the component cost part itself left out.
Since specific (named) resources are more work to acquire, I emphasized their increased cost in the price by multiplying their amount with two.
Unnamed resources are generally resources like "Fiberplast", "Inert Petrochemical", "Hide" or "Metal". In other words, the resource type's most common denominator.
Named resources are more specifically named resources like "Tatooinian Fiberplast", "Polymer","Leathery Hide", "NabooianLeathery Hide", "Non-Ferrous Metal", "Steel"or "Phrik Aluminium". You could, in fact, even extend the formula's functionality by adding a resource category depth variable. In other words, you could multiplythe amount of each type of named resource with an increasing number the more specifically it is named (i.e. the deeper it is within the resource categories). An example with chemicals:
-
Inorganic -
Chemical -
Inert Petrochemical (x1) -
Lubricating Oil (x2) -
Racipeorjaian (x3)
-
Polymer (x2) -
Durousrakate (x3) -
Ipij (x3)
- Fiberplast (x1)
-
Lokian Fiberplast (x2) -
Meiati (x3)
I deliberately did not factor in more general categories like "Chemical" or "Inorganic", but this is purely because with clothing, such extremely general categories aren't used (to my knowledge).To professions such asChefsor Smugglers (spice crafting) such general categories do matter.
But like I said, I myself just multiply the cumulative amount of named resources (whichever they may be) by two.
Rounding up or down?
After calculating the base price with this formula, the rounding up or down starts. I like my prices to be nice round numbers, especially since something like 2340 doesn't really feel right,2400 or 2300 does. But I guess that's personal (I could follow commercial doctrine and round prices up or down to numbers like "2399" or "999" but why should I?).
I use the following directives for rounding up or down:
(Note that where I use commas as decimal seperators, most of us Europeans use dots, i.e. US & UK: 1,000, Europe (except the British): 1.000)
If the calculated price is between 0 and999, I round up to the next third decimal: 485 becomes 500 and so does 445 (Rounding down, yuk! Me no Likey).
If the calculated price is between 1,000 and 9,999, I round up to the nextthird decimal: 2345 becomes 2400.
If the calculated price is between 10,000 and 99,999, I round up to the next fourth decimal:
10,200 becomes 11,000.
An Example
Now, to give an example of the whole process at work for a pair of Wrapped Boots:
Wrapped Boots
Complexity: 14
Schematic Data Size: 3
Resource Requirements:
25 units of Fiberplast
1 Metal Fasteners
10 units of Wooly Hide
10 units of Polymer
1 Fiberplast Panel
That makes:
(((25 fiberplast + 10 polymer) + (2 x 10 wooly hide)) x (14 complexity x 3 schematic size))+ (1 metal fasteners + 1 fiberplast panel)
I calculate the cost for the components in the same manner,soforMetal Fasteners I charge 200/unit and for Fiberplast Panels I charge 100/unit (these prices are rounded up, naturally)
We have thus:
(((25 + 10) + (2 x 10)) x (14 x 3))+ (200 + 100) = 2610
Because of all the brackets, here a more simplified version (not everybody is good at calculus):
(35 + 20) x42) + (200 + 100) = 2610
This we then round up to 2700 credits, to charge to the customer 
For reference, using the Tailor calculator at http://www.thewulfen.co.uk/swgtailor/and using the default settings for resource prices and difficulty multipliers, a pair of Wrapped Boots would "only" cost 888 credits... (way, way too little if you ask me). But then again, it mainly calculates by using the amount of resources and the base resource price (as far as I can tell).
Practically Speaking
Off course,I don't calculate the prices for each item by hand this way... Way too much work. This is where the spreadsheet comes in. I have one made where I just have to fill out the specifics such as the item name, clothing category, amount of resources and components. For those last ones, I just put in the correct number and the cell which displays the price calculates that for me. I then manually enter the price to charge (because I haven't automated that yet. Besides, I may want to charge more for certain items
). It's just a matter of updating the spreadsheet with new items of clothing whenever I get a new skillbox.
Concluding
There, you now know my secret (here's hoping not too many customers and potential customers get wind of this thread
). The pricing scheme I get with this formula works for me in the sense that I'm very happy with my prices and my customers aren't complaining... 
I hope this was auseful perspective on pricing for any of you Tailors out there.
Message Edited by Falech on 01-24-2005 11:52 PM
Ani_cul
Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:43 am
#12
a much more updated calq for tailors is found here
the creator of it took alot of time with our forums feedback on adjusting it for use too
Abernus
Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:54 am
#13
Hello, I have found that a little web page called Fashions by TK is a very good place to look for a price guide for all your Tailoring needs.
Sorry I dont have the link I will try to find it, I think it's still kicking about somewhere in the sticky's. I will try to update with a clicky.
Abernus
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