Tailor Archive

Please, stop doing me "favors." Another favor like this one will be the straw that broke the camel's back. Tailoring may well be the least broken profession in the game. Go "help" somebody else for a change, please.

I lived through grinding.

I lived through the old broken wookiee-wear color interface.

I lived through the factory bugs.

I lived through random two-day resource shifts.

The seven-day rule on vendors didn't make me quit tailoring, it just made me change the way I ran my business.

The broken preview graphics on necklaces hasn't made me quit tailoring, it just makes me sell fewer necklaces.

The dozenish schematic with"white or white" as a color choice don't make me quit tailoring, I just live with them.

Absence of clothing decay hasn't been enough to make me quit tailoring, not even the absence of any hope of clothing decay.

But this bioengineered tissue thing, this is going to be the death of me. I dug in my heals, because I flatly refuse to pay anyone 160+ credits per resource used for anything, let alone a component. And because I dug in my heals, how did my day go? One out of every three potential customers wanted the same thing: the same three Tissue IV and Master BE tissues. They didn't care about fit, color, appearance, all they wanted was those same three tissues in the cheapest item they could get.

To stock those items, I would have had to have invested on the order of half a million credits into those tissues. But because I never gouged my customers, I don't have that half a million credits. I don't have even one sixth of a million credits.

I swear, by the end of the week, the 20 or so Master Bioengineers on my server will have all of the money in the game, because these tissues cost less than 2000 credits to make - maybe even as little as half that much - and are selling for as much as thirteen thousand credits each, and still selling as fast as they can make them.

Oh, and because I have a problem with this, even if somebody were to hand me that half a million credits, no Bio Engineer would deal with me.

I am this close to filling my closet with a complete set of personal outfits and selling back all my artisan and tailoring points. I swear, this is turning into yet another game where the urge to craft is being pounded out of me.

I certainly know how you feel about getting yourself some nice clothes stored awayand surrendering your tailor skills, was at that point once myself.

I'm pursuing BE myself now. It's something to do between custom orders. I'll once again be a pure crafter since my days of master merchant( go ahead and fix hiring 4 vendor clothing option 3 days after I surrender the skills devs:smileysurprised. I've seen some insane pricing on bio stuff lately. But for some of those high end components, the requirements are SICK(milk!), so I don't blame them for what they are charging.The BE I originally had a deal with just couldn't wait for fixes anymore so quit. I'd rather surrender all my fighting skills and become one myself, to cut out the middle man. It's just this past week where I finally have felt the pinch of no clothes decay so this has come at a good time for my business. Once they add easier ways to get some of those rare ingrediants, the pricing should come down, but who knows how the market will look by then as some tailors do have that kinda money to spend.

I don't really see the problem here. I make new cloths for customers that bring me the bio items. I still charge the same price for what I made I just tell customers there is no quaranty on critical failures. Basically I charge x for an itemand I don't add additional fees just to have the tissue added. I have already done this several times with my customers. I figure they already paid for the tissue so why should I charge again.

Iaca

Master Tailor - Wonderhome

ex Master Droid Engineer

shops outside Theed and Bestine

I agree with the first poster, however I'm not sure that I like the categorisation of 'people who have one million credits are the ones that gouge their customers'.

I may have money, but let me tell you something, when I see how hard I work for my customers there is just no way I would work for less. You're the one who put yourself in these conditions in the first place by degrading the profession and selling everything too cheap, I think it's very easy to come to the boards to whine afterwards because you are poor, while your customers laugh at you with their millions in bank.

Of course if you are not in this category I apologize, but I have a hard time to believe that a master tailor who has been around a while doesn't have one million credits in the bank.

Brad,

Your post on our server board really made me cringe. I would never publicly attack members of another profession, ormy own, the way you did!

You choose to sell your clothes at well below market prices, and then publicly label anyone who doesn't do the same a "rip-off tailor." Then when your low prices leave you no cash to invest in new technology, you publicly ridicule the bio-engineer who is charging a very fair price for something that is currently in hot demand. I hate to see what you'll do when player mounts come into the game, or speeders! After all, why should a CH charge anything at all for a dewback? He got that baby for FREE in the wild!

Ah yes, then you will argue that people just won't pay any more than 3K for a master item. Well, maybe on Talus they won't - I'm not at all familiar with that market. But everywhere else in the galaxy, folks are generally rolling in cash. I had one customer buy ~30K worth of clothes from me, and then say "I still have 1.2M credits to spend," and laugh. Well,I referred her to an architect friend who sold her a truly beautiful terrarium for her home as well as a boatload of furniture for several hundreds of thousands of credits. And, yes he did actually charge for his SERVICES to set up her home. What was he thinking? /boggle

If I offer camos on the bazaar at 2950 and they sell like hotcakes, I am gouging no one. If people don't want to travel to Talus to get them for half theprice, I can't help that. Maybe it's because 1400 credits is pocket change to them. I have a friend who started playing SWG and with no help from me had over 50K in credits within a few days, just by doing low level kill missions as she learned her way around the game. So, she could fly to Talus, and pick up 15 master level items in your shop (if she wasn't a wookiee, that is). Does this make sense to you?

Yes, I am a rip-off tailor, Yes, I had the capital available to invest in some tissues from a rip-off bio-engineer. I am surprised I can live with myself, I am such an evil person.

Oh wait.. this is a game.. this is supposed to be fun.. and you know what? If a game makes you a bitter, unhappy person, then it's time to go find another game.

"" Ri'a Ocoli
"" Master Tailor, Kettemoor
"" Fine Attire by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!

The problem, as it stands now, is that, since they removed animal farms in beta, milk is no longer available in the game. Some humanoid npc drop random ressources (mind you : 1 (one) ressource at a time) and it includes milk, but it is mega rare.

So as long as milk is rarer than krayt scales ...

On the test center the Master BE and I are working out a deal where Milk and Mollusks cost more (5x per resource) but everything else is 2x per resource with a slight upkick for master.

Prices seem fair to me. And I maintain tons of buildings, harveys, factories. Live off my income alone. I do just fine. BEs on live need to really consider taking their stuff down a notch, their bread and butter is the components, but their high end sales should be pets/mounts.

The creatures and mounts take just as few resources as the components do. One bugged blurrg is 5 dna samples from trash mobs, and 80 resources. They seem to sell easily as house decorations for 62.5 cpu or 5K. A purely decorative item, and people love them. The other house pets are the same way.

I think Test has to be a whole different ballgame than the live servers. You have a lot smaller population, and everyone works together. It reminds me of the test server in Everquest - their economy was basically non-existant just because of their low population.

I'm sure the BE tissue market will settle down. This is only the first weekend the tissues have been widely available. Kind of like when a hot new car hits the market, and all the dealers can get 3K *above* the MSRP, and have people waiting around the block.

I'm trying to level up a bio-engineer on a 2nd account.. and let me tell you.. it's no easy task. Experience is excrutiatingly slow, and until just a few days ago the whole profession was horribly broken. The best grind item is 75 xp per, and it uses meat (yay). Or you can make bearded jax for 300xp each, after you spend time sampling 5 dna for each one. I honestly don't begrudge a bio-engineer for making a buck this weekend. If they stuck it out until master, and waited patiently for their profession to get thrown a bone, I say more power to 'em. If you don't like the tissue prices now, wait a few weeks. Or, find a novice BE and help them level up to master by providing them with thousands of units of meat (what fun that is!). Or, as another poster suggested, let the customers bring you the tissues.

I know you also play on a live server, Vandessa.. so you must know that the majority of the population has more money than they know what to do with.Selling someone a shirt with +15 to a couple of vital skills for 6000 or 8000 credits isn't going to send anyone to the poor house. Not when folks regularly drop 10 or 20 or 30K forpurely decorative items likes clothes, furniture, household decorations, etc. Heck, people pay 100-150K for fish tanks and terrariums.

I'll be the first to admit there are WAY too many credits floating around in SWG.. but I have no idea how it should be fixed.

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BradBradley wrote:

I swear, by the end of the week, the 20 or so Master Bioengineers on my server will have all of the money in the game, because these tissues cost less than 2000 credits to make - maybe even as little as half that much - and are selling for as much as thirteen thousand credits each, and still selling as fast as they can make them.

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Lihoi Itef, Proud Mojovian
Here's a tip: Master ID doesn't take a lot of skillpoints. Argue about the
time it takes to stat migrate, and I'll introduce you to where all my other
points are.

Just a few points of comparison here, all right?

If I charged the same amount for my time and my resouces that bio engineers are charging now, a gunman's duster would cost 20,000 credits.

If architects charged the same amount for resources used, never mind the much higher risk of failures and much larger investment in time, a small generic planet house would cost 540,000 credits, and a generic planet PA hall would cost over 10,000,000 credits.

If droid engineers charged the same amount for their time and the resources used, a plain-vanilla MSE Droid with no modules would cost over 10,000 credits. There are too many subcomponents for me to total it up just to make a rhetorical point, but it would appear that your average advanced probot with full armor and a couple of modules would cost at least 300,000 credits - and that's just for resources used, never mind the much, much higher investment in time.

I did go back and do the math, and you're not entirely wrong about weaponsmiths. A DX2 pistol is only 237 resources, and not much harder ones to obtain than what a bio engineer uses for most of the tissues. At the same level of pricing per resource, that DX2 goes for just a bit under 40,000 credits. Most weaponsmiths aren't quite getting that much for them, but I admit, that's closer to the same ballpark. So I'll partially concede on that one - though I still say that the weaponsmith has more labor involved, and more risk because of failures during final assembly.

Look, I'm not asking for them to make it take more time or more screwing around to make bio engineered components. Nor am I asking them to make them less powerful (which is what it would take to bring their value, and therefore price, down). What I'm asking for is for their resource requirements to be more in line with their perceived value.

As for the grinding difficulty - the level 1 and level 2 tissues give full UXP when a tailor uses them, even before the item sells to an end user. Grinding those level 1 and 2 tissues (which, admittedly, requires organics, but go back to my comment about how all BEs by definition have to have Hunting IV) and then turning them over to tailors for a reasonable price would pay back about 3.5 times the BE crafting XP that you get from the other things you suggested. From an XP point of view, this patch is very very good to BEs. And for the existing master BEs - what, just because you suffered, now you think you're entitled to collect all the cash on the server?

You are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about.

I have a BE, and it's far from being that easy. I have spent 100k just getting components to make the tissues, travelling everywhere on the server and spending two hours a day doing it. More often than not I end up with stacks of 2k of mediocre meat, or of 200 of high quality meat that oftensell for 6 to 10 cr per unit. Add the shuttle tickets to that. yes you can harvest the tissues yourself but you have to find a good source of meat, then hunt there for hours to get a decent amount.

After that, you have to make the tissues with experimentation. Each tissuerequires up to 80 resources or so.It takes up to 6 tries or so to make a decent one, the lowtissues will hardly sell,then you can make crates but you rarely end up being able to make more than1 at a time because of lack of identical components.

I'm wasting my time trying to explain however, as obviously for you the notion of 'time is money' is non existant.

As a Master BE I'd like to make a few comments:

A normal artisan can plonk down a few harvesters then come back days later and get all the resources they require to craft with. BE products require hunted component of high quality which are a lot harder to get hold of in large amounts. Many hunters would rather farm any old large animal for 100 hides a timeto sell to tailors than hunt specific, sometimes difficult, rare or small animals to get a few meat for a BE.

BEs have 3 main products, Pets which are fora largepart broken and have been since launch, PetMeds which requireexotic components (dathomir insect meat, fish, endorian flowers etc) and require a huge investment in time to meet demand (I have 3 factories dedictated to pet stims at the moment and need to purchase 2 more to make vitality packs and now tissues). And now tissues for tailors, which generally can only be made in small factory runs because of the difficulty of getting a lot of the same type of resource.

Skill bonuses have always been sold at a premium. How many skill tapes have people bought for 3K that only give +1 to ranged defence, or +2 to polearm? The BE mods are more like +16 injury treatment, the equivalent to a huge amount of medical xp for a master medic or doctor.

The economy is awash with credits. Just because you personally dont have 1M Cr doesnt mean there are not a lot of players who do, and have nothing to spend it on. There are no uber loot drops in this game, the BE tissues are the closest thing people can get to the Magical Platemail of EQ or DAOC and people want an edge in PvP or PvE combat and are willing to pay for it.

These products are new. Most new products to hit the market will be sold at a premium for a while as demand outstrips supply by a huge amount. When player mounts are release, for a few weeks the prices of dewbacks and falumpasets will spike to record levels, then settledown as the market returns to a balance where demand settles down and supply grows.

In a few weeks many BEs will find it difficult to sell +12 injury treatment biosensors for cost as a few skilled BEs will be able to make +16 tissues and will be selling them for more reasonable prices (still expect 10K per tissue for the best quality master level stuff, but not the 20K some are charging now).

As a side note, I started selling my tissues at 5K each but could not keep up with demand without lowering quality. I would rather put up my prices until demand drops to meet my ability to supply than start churning out junk tissues from bulk ingredients with inferior stats.