Tailor Archive

Thread: Forgive me if I'm missing something.. but whats the big deal with removing the experimentation?

Fion13
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:12 pm
#1

It's not like ANYONE experimented anyways. Clothing has NEVER decayed (since the game was live). Even if it did have a Durability option that didn't do a thing. Some say it worked on componants such as RPF's and Synth Cloth, but it's debatable.


So.. since theres no decay right now, they removed an unneccessary waste of time.. experimentation on clothing. Holocron has stated that decay will be put in but it will be a broad general fix, not tailor specific. Hense there is no need to have a Durability expermentation when clothing doesn't even have a durability in the first place. Well I spose it has a psuedo-durability. You could experiment on it but it never really did anything.


I see that we got our 55 colors back, which is wonderful and we tailors have wanted it since the game is released. Yet what do I see on the forums? Not ONE mention thanking the devs for finally fixing the bug.. just bitching that the devs removed a 'feature' that didn't work in the first place?


So whats the big deal? Perhaps I'm missing something. I don't see a reason for all the complaining and the crying out over this... beyond poeples need to bitch and moan in these forums.




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Creepoh
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:20 pm
#2

I think the idea is this: yes, experimentation only worked on decay, which was never implememented, however it gave you a general idea of "how you were doing" in terms of quality and skill.

More importantly, we're upset because they took away the only reason we had for experimenting without replaceing it with anything. If experimentation could affect the number of sockets, or the color palette available, that would be very cool.

Experimentation was the only thing saving us from the "cookie cutter" idea of clothing crafting. With that removed there really is NO difference between any two pieces of clothing, and now is looks like there will NEVER be a difference between any two pieces of clothing.

Taking away experimenation (and decay) robbed us of our hopes and dreams of being able to measure ourselves against each other to see who is "better" (i.e., can make more durable clothing).



If it wasn't for disappointment, I wouldn't have any appointment.
voigtstr
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:27 pm
#3

I always experimented. I figured one day they will turn decay on, and the clothes I craft would have the highest stats on the server and be well sought after, putting me at the top of my profession. Now I'm just a guy who can make colorful clothes.



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Fion13
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:32 pm
#4

But.. they didn't take it away. It was never there in the first place. Durability Experimentation didn't work, and while I guess it kind of makes you go 'ah man' that they took experimentation out.. there was no use for it anyway. IMHO in a way I am thankful they did because now I won't accidently experiment on an item that has virtually no experimentation in the first place.


Now it would be AWESOME if we had a reason to experiment. I am really hoping they are working on improving experimentation and they just took the experimentation option out because it was useless and just got in poeples way or something.


But to see so many people mad, and rumors that our correspondant has quit over this.. I cant really see why. I mean sure the devs did this and it makes people assume that means they will NEVER impliment decay or other forms of experimentation. But the devs have also fixed many of our issues and requests. For example they fixed the wookie color palette bug, catagorized clothing in the crafting tools and bazaar (albeit it still needs some work), brought back our missing colors, did a pass on crafting that sped things up and made it over-all faster and smoother.


I really think it comes down to poeple just wanting to moan about it. I mean yes the death decay thing isn't the greatest idea, IMHO a slow usage based decay for cloths 'as you wear them' is a better idea. But really why is everyone so utterly mad, our correspondance quit in disgust over something WE DIDN'T HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE.


I'm not one to fall into the fad of hating gaming companies, as is apparent. I'm sure they aren't done with our profession. From being in beta I realize that these devs fix things in a very interesting way.. accurate but at the same time causes some heat. They see something thats wrong and they swing it in the entire different direction to more easily find the balance at the center.




Fix the forums so they work properly with Firefox! PLEASE!
Fion13
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:34 pm
#5

Voigtstr you always were just a guy who could make colorful cloths. Nothing has changed man. I to am just a guy who can make colorful clothing... same as I have been since day 2.



Fix the forums so they work properly with Firefox! PLEASE!
NatiraSun
Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:56 pm
#6

Some people are upset because they're confused, and think something was removed. A lot more (like me) are upset because this is a sign that decay is NOT coming soon. If it were, why go to the bother of removing the stat? It indicates that we shouldn't expect any form of decay or experimentation in the forseable future, which is a terrible message to send. Decay and the lack of any way to experiment and make our clothes unique are the BIGGEST Tailor issues, so removing those buttons and stats sure sounds like the Devs way of saying, "Forget about it."



---
Natira Sun
Master Tailor
Shop at 800, -4700 near Coronet, Corelia, Naritus
Wire3k
Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:38 am
#7

Why is everyone assuming that you have to have experimentation for decay to be put in?


Look at this as a gift.


Decay is a totally seperate issue actually.




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Kylania
Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:57 am
#8

FIon, we're pissed because we were lied to by the devs. On 8/15 Q-3PO said in response to us Tailor's NUMBER ONE ISSUE that we should see clothing decay "implemented very soon". On 9/4 we're told that there was an "overwhelming community feedback" against decay so now there's no decay, no expiermentation, no hope. All under the excuse that "hey, it never worked before...".


We KNOW it didn't work, and we were specifically told that it would. So now we have almost no hope of having clothing decay on the same system as weapons and armor because they lack the programming skills to be able to work out a method to have different decay systems? What kind of bull**edit** is that? So now we find out that this "overwhelming community feedback" was actually from way back in beta?! And that's more important than current paying tailor customers? Now half of and entire line of skills is WORTHLESS. I have 11 expiermentation points for nothing. I have +6 Clothing expiermentation skill tapes for nothing.


We're the neutered crafting class, that's why we're pissed they removed expiermenation. Because it shows that we're the sub-optimal crafting class, that we don't matter to the devs to the extent that they'll bold face LIE to us to shut us up, that our skills are meaningless that we have no hope of over getting anything tailoring specific from the Devs (not the art guys.. the devs, I'm sure the Art guys will come up with more great clothes that the programmers will **edit** up and screw the colors up on) because they lack the programming abilties.


Meanwhile CH pets gets change after change after change, massive code revisions, new abilities, tweaked features all sorts of stuff.. and we get our empty hearts ripped out of out crafting tools.


As a tailor I can't even become an Armorsmith to play around with my new colors there, or expierence what it's like to make QUALITY items, because of a bug that apparnetly no one's heard of!! Holocron seemed as if he knew nothing of the bug that's one our top five issues!


Decay and expiermentation wasn't the key issue here, it was just a rallying point for all the problems we have.

YukonSam
Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:08 am
#9






Fion13 wrote:

But.. they didn't take it away. It was never there in the first place.




Ah, but it was... in Beta. It was time-based, and it sucked rocks. But it was there.


They took out time-based decay, because it stank like rotting sardines in a sulfer spring. But they left us our (useless) experimentation points and our (non-functional) stat to experiment upon, so we at least got a taste of what experimentation was all about. We also got the single most worthless object in the entire game, the clothing repair tool (and it's still there) to give us hope.


Finally, we got the word directly from the developer's mouth: decay was going in, and soon! We rejoiced, yea verily.


Then... I'm not sure what happened then. Maybe we were dancing on the tracks and didn't notice the 915 express rounding the bend. Or maybe somebody upstairs said, "Oh look, optimism. *stomp* *sploosh*".


But our experimentation has been erased, our private crafting stations are virtually useless, and nobody even bothered to ask, "so, what do you think of this idea" before declaring it a product of overwhelming community response.


That might be okay if there were a clear plan of action to rebuild tailoring, but instead we've got Holo scratching his head and saying that clothes ought to decay the same as houseplants. ARRRRRRRGH! Madness! Chairs shouldn't even decay the same as bookcases, let alone having lighting fixtures decay like sneakers.


This points to even more delays until a solution is implemented. I honestly don't anticipate seeing anything viable for at least two months, and probably longer.


That's not a long time in the lifespan of a game, but it's an eternity if you're trying to retain a disillusioned player.

aimee
Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:37 am
#10

i personally experimented with every piece i planned on selling to get the highest durabiltity i could for when decay did finally come into the game. it was like an experience monitor. it gave me a reason to seek the best quality resources i could and put a bit of a challenge into tailoring.then as my skill has climbed and i made better and better items i felt like i accomplished something. *even tho decay was not here yet* i assumed that the skill put into the items would take effect once decay did... so yes i lost something .. i lost a sense of accomplishment, a sense of challenge. now a first day novice tailor can make something as well as me besides colors and sockets? now i can use the crappiest of the crap resources if i want to?....and can still get sockets randomly, and my garments suffer nothing?? to me a big piece of the fun was removed when they decided that decay was no longer based on durability. like someone said.. now i make cookie cutter clothing. thanks for taking half the fun and all the challenge out of my profession. now sadly tailoring is all about the grind to get there...


clothing needs to decay at the very least during use!! and i strongly feel that tailors need to have some way to indiviualize their clothing.. even if experimentation is put back in for sockets or colors.. ANYTHING. please make it interesting and challenging..



aimee isakk


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YukonSam
Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:03 am
#11






aimee wrote:

clothing needs to decay at the very least during use!! and i strongly feel that tailors need to have some way to indiviualize their clothing.. even if experimentation is put back in for sockets or colors.. ANYTHING. please make it interesting and challenging..




You know, I'd feel better if they had put in a stat for "garment quality" that did absolutely nothing, but gave us something to experiment on if we wished. There are people who would work to produce nothing but "very fine" grade clothing, and people who would pay a premium just for that meaningless tag.


It doesn't make sense, but it's true. It would also act as a placeholder for a more meaningful experimentation system in the future.

JimTheCactus
Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:25 am
#12

I did experiment, but only on components. That fact that the experimental "durability" of components changed the maximum experimental values on items made with components made it really important. Important point to note: When I made synth cloth for clothes, I NEVER experimented. But when I made a crate for an armorsmith... THAT was a different story. I build my client base on the fact that I would never allow a poorly made cloth/panel to come out of my factory. anything less that 30% (I only have tailor 1) is discounted because the armor you could make out of it was poor. Higher quality components = better armor. But this leads to the issue. The took experimental "durability" out of the Cloth/Panel schematics. The question is, did they change whether or not the quality mattered?



--------------------
Todoo Sunstrider
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Gyopi
Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:57 am
#13


Fion13 wrote:

It's not like ANYONE experimented anyways. Clothing has NEVER decayed (since the game was live). Even if it did have a Durability option that didn't do a thing. Some say it worked on componants such as RPF's and Synth Cloth, but it's debatable.






Unless I was just grinding practice stuff for experience, I *always* experimented. I know it didn't matter unless they added clothing decay, but it was a matter of pride. I am still working towards the tailor profession (despite being nerfed), so maybe I don't have the best stuff in the world, but whether it is clothing or anything else that I sell I want to make sure that it is absolutely the best quality I could manage. If my experimentation wasn't sucessful enough for me, I never even attempted to sell the item. Thats the difference between an artisan and some sort of virtual sweatshop worker who just cranks out as much cheap product as possible.

Yesterday was frustrating. Not only did I discover that I had better have a second profession to actually support myself (I will continue to fight and kill stuff since the devs like that and you can make lots of money at it easily), but they shuffled all of the resources for the second time in less than a week so that I had to move my extractor and wind generator (I feel sorry for the people who had a lot of these) which cost me an extra 10000 credits. I will be running a lot of scouting missions instead of working on artisan stuff for awhile to make up for this.




Momoko--Master Tailor near Kaadara on Lowca--
Come to Sitateya boutique at (5083 5804) on Naboo for elegant fashions, accessories, cute outfits, uniforms or any other clothing needs.
Eimi -- Master Bioengineer - Master Image Designer on Lowca--
Eimiko--Master Image Designer on TestCenter--

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