Swordsman Archive
Thread: Damage Types Discusion...
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JediQuic
Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:56 pm
#1
Ok, now today on the way to class i was thining to myself, "Man would it be Awesome if they added a Stun damageWeapon for Swordsman" But it got me thinking.....
Why Doesn't EVERYONE have access to a Stun damage weapon? Isn't itan Obvious Game imbalance to have One or 2 Classes Ultimatly Much more effective and Viable in PvP engagementsDue ONLY to thier ability to use a Gun/Stick that Ignores (Most) armor? Wouldn't it be more benificial for the game and Everyones PvP experience if We could ALL be as effective as Riflemen and Fencers in PvP? What makes them so differant from us...Are they Specificaly Designed to have a PvP Advantage in a game that Revolves around PvP interaction as the Dictating force Almost every aspect? Would it not be better to Give Everyone this damage(And most other damage types) to Introduce a Sence of Fairness and Equal Enjoyment? I think it would be.
Balancing the Field by giving everyone Stun damage Options would increase the Overal Enjoyment of the game, While not Unbalancing it in Any way that it WASN'T Intended to be. It Would Add a Sence of tactics to the game this just isn't felt now(Well if they Nerf Composite....More on this later), People would have to Choose their weapons and specialsAccordingly, Without Nearly as much Room for error. It would Work Much more as i Imagine they intended...They Intended Swordsmen to be Doing Big hits to the Mind pool, They intended TKM's to bean All in onePowerhouse(Laugh), They Intended Carbineers to beSmashing people withheavy hitting charge shots ...ect
But instead what we have is a select Few Classes DOMINATING Everyone in PvP by virtue of a Particular damage type they have avalible, Except Combat Medics Who Work Exactly as Intended(Yey!). As an effect of this, Many People Abandon their "Natural" Class in order to remain a Competative threat to those Who Previously "Owned" them, and to Own those who havn't Given in and made the Change yet. The Current Combination of Systems(Avalible Damage types vs Avalible armor) Litteraly Forces Particular professions More and more out of PvP.
But instead what we have is a select Few Classes DOMINATING Everyone in PvP by virtue of a Particular damage type they have avalible, Except Combat Medics Who Work Exactly as Intended(Yey!). As an effect of this, Many People Abandon their "Natural" Class in order to remain a Competative threat to those Who Previously "Owned" them, and to Own those who havn't Given in and made the Change yet. The Current Combination of Systems(Avalible Damage types vs Avalible armor) Litteraly Forces Particular professions More and more out of PvP.This needs to Change, a Combat Revamp isn't going to Cut it. It isn't going to change the Fact that i hita fencerin 90% composite for 50 damage(MAX) While he is Wailing away at me for litteraly Hundreds of damageevery second(Scatter hit2 for example) When i am Wearing the Exact same Armorthat he is. I wouldn't care If he Simply out damaged me, Thats not nearly as big of an issue IMO, I do however care that he Totaly Outclasses me the second he puts on 90% comosite and Equips a Stun baton. Now don't read this paragraph and Missunderstand that i am calling for a nerf to fencers, I'm not...I'm Simply suggesting that i should be able to enjoy the game in a Similar way Without being forced to Froget what i want to be, In order to persue a More viable and Effective profession.
*Discuss*
*Note about Composite Armor*- my thoughts also lead me to this comclusion, "What the HELL were the devs Smoking when the Put Composite in the game the Way they did?" Seriously, i have no Problem with it being "THE BEST" armor in the game...and it will be if they stick to what the said, 90% max resists, Composite Comes in 90% flavors and covers all damage types but one and even that one can beeffectivly covered now...But they also made it so it could be OPENLY avalible to anyone who realy wants it.....Can you say FUBAR? Putting the "Uber Armor" in the game in such a give me fashion just makes defense a complete joke when you think about it.....Shoot you NEED to target the mind bar in order to even make a permanet DENT in somone, Otherwise a Novice medic is Overly suficient to maintain a Composite Combatant.
*Flame Away Armor lovers *
*
JediQuic
Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:38 pm
#2
Wow! Look at my Topic Fall into the abyss with no responces.....Guess it was to much for everyone right now......Maybe next time it won't be so Extreem
Hedek
Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:00 pm
#3
Imo your thinking is revered, it would be easier to modify the composite armor rather than all professions to add a stun weapon. Recently stun layer has been added to comp armors too, it's not as good as 90% you can get for other resists butit's still decent (i've seen 45% ones).
I'd love to see armors evolve in a more strategical manner, just like ubese is a great kinetic armor, I think there should be one armor type for each purpose and the smart PvPer would when to switch to what, rather than one armor covering all the resists better than the others. And if you reverse the thinking, the smart PvPer would know which weapon to switch to depending on which armor his enemy is using. I think that would add more subtility to PvP, just a thought.
Sin
Master Weaponsmith,
Nexus, Naboo,
Chimaera
JediQuic
Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:46 pm
#4
I thought about that too.....But a Composite nerf would not be as well recieved as the addition of new weapons.
Since Comp isn't going Anywhere, and i can't think of any other solutions(Other then the removal of 75% reduction )....It still stands
)....It still stands
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:41 am
#6
Hedek wrote:
Imo your thinking is revered, it would be easier to modify the composite armor rather than all professions to add a stun weapon. Recently stun layer has been added to comp armors too, it's not as good as 90% you can get for other resists butit's still decent (i've seen 45% ones).
I'd love to see armors evolve in a more strategical manner, just like ubese is a great kinetic armor, I think there should be one armor type for each purpose and the smart PvPer would when to switch to what, rather than one armor covering all the resists better than the others. And if you reverse the thinking, the smart PvPer would know which weapon to switch to depending on which armor his enemy is using. I think that would add more subtility to PvP, just a thought.
Sin
Master Weaponsmith,
Nexus, Naboo,
Chimaera
There is a downfall to composite armor. Take my 80% kinetic armor, for instance—before slicing it had roughly 780 encumberances to ALL three pools. That's some damn heavy armor. I'm pretty sure the 80% Kinetic/69% Electricity/11% Stun/56% Base armor I replaced it with last night is even heavier. Sure, I get rediculous protections from it—just about the only thing that worries me anymore are Jawa Ion Rifles—but on the other hand, if my buffs/brandy/canapes drop I'm at…well, negative secondaries on everything. Can we say ouchy?
Ekhvram
Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:25 am
#7
Let me put it like this;
you cannot balance composite armor (& its achillees' heel; stun damage) while what is supposed to keep it balanced [heavy encumberance] is negated by doc buffs.
-The availability and nature* of Doc buffs also make attempts to damage those H & A pools silly, hence the preponderance of headshots, eyeshots, headhits, scatterhits, and various DoTs on that pool, leading to limited profession viability in PvP.
*in that they can pump every H, A primary & secondary by a flat 2K or more, instead of a more normalized % base like Entertainer buffs. (Human attribute min/maxing of H400/A400/capped Mind stats contributes to abuse of this system.)
Jockothemonkey
Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:35 am
#9
Buffs have basically eliminated the downside to wearing heavy armor. The only encumberance that is even a consideration would be mind encumberance since the buffs for mind are not as available as health and action buffs. It is easy to get around this using food, drink, spice and stat maxing though, making any armor except composite near useless.
If they capped composite effectiveness at 50% across the board, and allowed others to go to 80% vs various damage types armor would be more strategic. Composite would be the armor of choice when you were facing multiple damage types, but you would switch out to a different suit when you knew what you were fighting. They could also increase the encumberance to be a percentage instead of a flat number, you would then see people paying a lot more attention to encumberance on armor and perhaps opting for lighter armor instead of heavier in some situations.
Looking at the trade forums and what people are buying and selling gives a great indication of the state of combat. In the early phases of the game armor encumberance was a very important consideration when crafting armor, and you saw a lot of people wearing ubese, chitin or padded instead of composite to save on ham.
As the flavor of the month template changes you also see this reflected in the nature of armor and weapons traded. I remember a while back when a good pvp suit was made with a triple acid layered helm to protect against BH eyeshot, and triple heat layered chestplate for fwg5 smugglers and commandos. Everyone is now using stun damage in pvp and the new suits are triple stun layered along with stun resistant PSGs. Krayt tissue is no longer used to make uber scatter pistols and flamethrowers, instead it is used in crafting geo pistols and jawa rifles.
Watching these trends provides an interesting perspective on the current state of combat both pve and pvp in the game, and emphasizes the underlying herd mentality that people have.
If they capped composite effectiveness at 50% across the board, and allowed others to go to 80% vs various damage types armor would be more strategic. Composite would be the armor of choice when you were facing multiple damage types, but you would switch out to a different suit when you knew what you were fighting. They could also increase the encumberance to be a percentage instead of a flat number, you would then see people paying a lot more attention to encumberance on armor and perhaps opting for lighter armor instead of heavier in some situations.
Looking at the trade forums and what people are buying and selling gives a great indication of the state of combat. In the early phases of the game armor encumberance was a very important consideration when crafting armor, and you saw a lot of people wearing ubese, chitin or padded instead of composite to save on ham.
As the flavor of the month template changes you also see this reflected in the nature of armor and weapons traded. I remember a while back when a good pvp suit was made with a triple acid layered helm to protect against BH eyeshot, and triple heat layered chestplate for fwg5 smugglers and commandos. Everyone is now using stun damage in pvp and the new suits are triple stun layered along with stun resistant PSGs. Krayt tissue is no longer used to make uber scatter pistols and flamethrowers, instead it is used in crafting geo pistols and jawa rifles.
Watching these trends provides an interesting perspective on the current state of combat both pve and pvp in the game, and emphasizes the underlying herd mentality that people have.
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:35 am
#10
You're absolutely right. The system is horribly broken, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Ekhvram wrote:
Let me put it like this;
you cannot balance composite armor (& its achillees' heel; stun damage) while what is supposed to keep it balanced [heavy encumberance] is negated by doc buffs.
-The availability and nature* of Doc buffs also make attempts to damage those H & A pools silly, hence the preponderance of headshots, eyeshots, headhits, scatterhits, and various DoTs on that pool, leading to limited profession viability in PvP.
*in that they can pump every H, A primary & secondary by a flat 2K or more, instead of a more normalized % base like Entertainer buffs. (Human attribute min/maxing of H400/A400/capped Mind stats contributes to abuse of this system.)
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